User:Raelin

Greetings, gentle reader.

'That', get thee down!

Know that I am at odds with over-use of the word That; (that) being necessary only when it is. (See where it worked and where it didn't?).

If editing (or even just reading) a sentence with the word that, please either try without it or consider using which instead (more on this later below). If still fully understood with no material impact on clarity, style or readability, it's probably best to remove it (or possibly replace it with which).

To be clear (and this point is repeated later below):

• Sometimes it’s grammatically permissible to drop “that” from a restrictive clause, and its repeated use in a paragraph overall - or a sentence in particular - can impact overall clarity and readability. This point is a materially significant example of how that is often overused on this wiki.
  • Example: “I know (that) you are tired.” However, when it aids clarity, including “that” can be helpful; balance is key.

I will be relentless in removing its overuse and inappropriate use from this Wiki, whenever I see it (i.e. most of the time). If you care, read on to see when and why I won't.

'Was that really necessary?' or Explaining the Use of That in English.

The word that can serve several functions in English. It may act as a demonstrative pronoun, a relative pronoun, or a conjunction. Below is an overview of how to use that properly in each role, along with guidance on when its inclusion or omission is appropriate.

1. Demonstrative Pronoun

Example

• “That is my favorite painting.”

In this sense, that refers to a specific thing or idea. If you’re pointing at or referring to something not immediately close to you (physically or metaphorically), that is often used rather than this.

• Use this when referring to something nearby or just mentioned.
• Use that when referring to something farther away or mentioned earlier.

2. Relative Pronoun

Examples

• Restrictive Clause:
  • “The book that is on the table is mine.”
• Nonrestrictive Clause:
  • “The book, which is on the table, is mine.”

That as a relative pronoun introduces a restrictive (essential) clause. Restrictive clauses are necessary to identify or limit the noun’s meaning. Compare:

• “The house that has a red door is mine.”
  • Here, that has a red door is essential to identifying which house.

• “The house, which has a red door, is mine.”
  • Here, the clause is merely additional information; the speaker is not using the red door detail to distinguish the house from others.

Key point:

• Use that for restrictive clauses (no commas).
• Use which for nonrestrictive clauses (with commas).

3. Conjunction (or Subordinating Conjunction)

Example

• “I think that you should go.”

In this role, that introduces a noun clause—often a statement, thought, or indirect speech. The word that can sometimes be optional:

• “I think you should go.” (Without that)
• “I think that you should go.” (With that)

Both are grammatically correct. The choice to include or omit that often comes down to clarity or style. If omitting that causes confusion or makes the sentence sound awkward, keep it.

4. When That is Useful (or Proper) vs. Omissible

• Clarity: If leaving out that causes ambiguity, it is better to include it. For instance, in complex sentences with multiple clauses, that can prevent confusion about which clause modifies or refers to which element.
• Formality and Style: Some writers prefer using that to maintain a more formal tone (I usually don't). Others may omit it for brevity, if the meaning remains clear.
• Restrictive Clauses: When describing a noun with an essential characteristic, that is typically correct (rather than which).
• Demonstrative Pointing: If you’re referencing something further away in space or time, that serves as a useful demonstrative pronoun.

Summary of Best Practices

• Use that as a relative pronoun for restrictive clauses that are essential to the meaning. (No commas required.)
• Use that as a conjunction to introduce indirect speech or a subordinate clause, especially when it helps clarify the sentence.
• Include or omit that based on clarity, style, and readability. If removing that doesn’t obscure meaning, you can omit it; otherwise, keep it.
• Use that as a demonstrative pronoun to point out or reference something specific, often something farther away than this would imply.

By understanding these roles and applying them as needed, you’ll be able to judge when that is truly necessary—and when it can be safely left out—while keeping your writing clear and grammatically sound.

I hope that makes sense.

Which is more appropriate?

In modern English grammar, that and which are both relative pronouns used to introduce subordinate clauses. However, they serve slightly different functions depending on whether the clause is restrictive or nonrestrictive. Understanding the difference is key to using them correctly.

Which vs. That, or Knowing the Proper Use of Each

1. Restrictive (Defining) Clauses

Preferred Relative Pronoun in British English

• “that” is traditionally used, though in British English, “which” can also be acceptable in restrictive clauses.
  • No commas around the clause.

Definition: A restrictive clause (sometimes called a defining clause) contains information essential to the meaning of the sentence. If you remove a restrictive clause, the sentence’s meaning changes significantly or becomes unclear.

• Relative Pronoun: that
• Punctuation: No commas

Example

• “The car that is parked in front of the house belongs to my sister.”
  • Here, “that is parked in front of the house” defines which car we’re talking about (the one in front of the house). If you remove this clause, we lose the specificity and might not know which car belongs to your sister.
• “The students that received scholarships were honored at the ceremony.”
  • Only some students received scholarships, and only those were honored. If you remove “that received scholarships,” we lose a key detail.

Further detail: Example (Preferred Usage)

• “The house that was painted yellow belongs to my aunt.”
  • (Tells us which house belongs to my aunt.)

You could see this in British English:

• “The house which was painted yellow belongs to my aunt.”
  • Although some style guides will prefer “that,” using “which” in a restrictive sense is less controversial in British English than it would be in formal American English.

2. Nonrestrictive (Non-Defining) Clauses

Definition: A nonrestrictive clause provides extra, non-essential information. Removing it does not change the fundamental meaning of the sentence.

• Relative Pronoun: which (though sometimes “that” appears in casual speech, “which” is preferred in standard writing for nonrestrictive clauses)
• Punctuation: Surrounded by commas (or preceded by a comma if at the end of the sentence)

Example

• “The car, which is parked in front of the house, belongs to my sister.”
  • Here, “which is parked in front of the house” is additional information. We already know which car belongs to the speaker’s sister. The clause could be removed, and the main statement—“The car belongs to my sister”—would still be clear and correct.
• “The students, which included three from my hometown, were honored at the ceremony.”
  • The phrase “which included three from my hometown” adds extra information about the students honored. Even if you remove that clause, you still know the students were honored.

To review again - Essential vs. Extra:

• Ask: Does the clause specify which noun we’re referring to, or does it merely add detail?
  • If essential to identify the subject (house, book, etc.), it is restrictive.
  • If extra information, it is nonrestrictive.
• Commas vs. No Commas
  • Restrictive clauses: No commas
  • Nonrestrictive clauses: Surrounded by commas

3. Quick Tests to Differentiate

Comma Rule:

• If you need commas around your clause, you typically use which.
• If you do not use commas, it is likely a restrictive clause requiring that.

Essential vs. Nonessential:

• Ask: “If I remove this clause, does the sentence still make sense?”
• If the sentence becomes ambiguous or loses critical meaning, use that (no commas). If it still works fine and you’re just missing some extra detail, use which with commas.

4. Illustrative Examples in British English

Restrictive (Defining)

• Preferred: “The biscuits that I bought yesterday have all gone stale.”
• Commonly Seen: “The biscuits which I bought yesterday have all gone stale.”
• Either way, you don’t put commas around the clause because it identifies which biscuits are stale.

Nonrestrictive (Non-Defining)

• “The biscuits, which I bought yesterday, have all gone stale.”
• Removing “which I bought yesterday” leaves “The biscuits have all gone stale,” which is still a complete statement.

5. Additional Nuances

People vs. Objects:

• When referring to people, we usually use who or whom rather than “that” or “which.” For example: “The student who won the award.”
• When referring to things or animals (especially non-personified animals), we use that (restrictive) or which (nonrestrictive).

Exceptions and Style Choices:

• In very casual or regional usage, some speakers use “which” in both restrictive and nonrestrictive clauses. This is not typically preferred in formal writing.
• Some style guides (such as older British usage) show more flexibility, but modern, formal American English generally maintains the that/which distinction.

Clarity and Readability:

• Sometimes it’s grammatically permissible to drop “that” from a restrictive clause, and its repeated use in a paragraph overall - or a sentence in particular - can impact overall clarity and readability.
  • Example: “I know (that) you are tired.” However, when it aids clarity, including “that” can be helpful; balance is key.

6. Illustrative Comparison

Restrictive: “The dogs that bark all night keep me awake.”

• Here, only some dogs bark all night, and those are the ones causing the issue.

Nonrestrictive: “The dogs, which bark all night, keep me awake.”

• Here, it implies all of the dogs bark all night, and that is extra information clarifying why they keep me awake. If you remove “which bark all night,” you still know the dogs keep you awake.

7. Practical Tip

• If you’re writing for formal or academic contexts (including British academic circles), sticking to the clearer that/which distinction is often considered best practice.
• In casual British English or journalism, the usage is more flexible, and “which” might appear in both restrictive and nonrestrictive clauses without much objection.

Final Takeaway

• Use “that” for restrictive, essential information (no commas).
• Use “which” for nonrestrictive, extra information (with commas).

By applying this rule of thumb—focusing on whether the clause is essential or additional - you’ll consistently choose between that and which correctly and maintain clear, grammatically precise sentences.

Can I say that?

“Can” and “may” both deal with possibility and permission, but they have traditionally distinct uses in formal English. Unlike that, which I consider to be more cut and dry, can and may are more subtle, grey and nuanced in their proper use. May I show you, please?

Proper use of can vs. may in English.

1. Ability vs. Permission

• Can is usually linked to ability or capability:
  • Example: “I can swim a mile without stopping.”
  • (I am able to do it)

• May is linked to permission or possibility:
  • Example: “You may leave the classroom early.”
  • (You have permission)

2. Permission in Common Usage

• In everyday conversation, “can” is often used to mean permission, even though this is less formal:

Example: “Can I go to the bathroom?” is generally acceptable in casual speech, though “May I go to the bathroom?” is more precise if you’re specifically asking for permission.

3. Formal vs. Informal Contexts

• Formal contexts (e.g., professional emails, academic writing):
  • Use “may” to request permission or express possibility more politely.
  • Use “can” for literal ability.
• Informal contexts (casual conversation, texting):
  • It is perfectly common (and not usually considered incorrect) to use “can” for both ability and permission.

4. Expressing Possibility

• May can also signify possibility or likelihood:
  • Example: “It may rain tonight.”
  • (It’s possible)

• Can sometimes expresses possibility, but more in the sense of general truth or capacity:
  • Example: “A power outage can happen during a storm.”
  • (It’s possible under certain conditions)

Summary

• Use “can” to talk about ability or capacity (“I can speak three languages”). In informal situations, “can” is also frequently used for permission.
• Use “may” to talk about permission or possibility in more formal or polite contexts (“May I please borrow your notes?” / “He may join us for dinner”).

Keeping these distinctions in mind, you can choose the right word for the right context and may improve usage of both.