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Talk:The Dark Urge: Difference between revisions
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[[File:Open Your Scars Quest Elder Brain Log.png|thumb]] | [[File:Open Your Scars Quest Elder Brain Log.png|thumb]] | ||
To assume that "playing with tentacles" = sex, is just silly and feels like someone's headcanon more than anything. If you read the entire, completed journal entry for Open Your Scars, it is dripping with sarcasm and straight up mocks the Dark Urge at various points. | To assume that "playing with tentacles" = sex, is just silly and feels like someone's headcanon more than anything. If you read the entire, completed journal entry for Open Your Scars, it is dripping with sarcasm and straight up mocks the Dark Urge at various points. We do not know who the perspective of the journal is even from, and it previously refers to the Dark Urge as an "amnesiac carriage-crash-pile-up you." Its insults should be taken with a heavy grain of salt. | ||
In the actual conversation with the Elder Brain, it calls the Dark Urge the "disgraced master," "heir," "tyrant," and says that the Dark Urge "gave us everything - disappeared." There's simply no indication that the Elder Brain saw the Dark Urge as anything other than a worthy ally. | In the actual conversation with the Elder Brain, it calls the Dark Urge the "disgraced master," "heir," "tyrant," and says that the Dark Urge "gave us everything - disappeared." There's simply no indication that the Elder Brain saw the Dark Urge as anything other than a worthy ally. | ||
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The "Father will see us together again" line, to be clear, is in reference to the dream the Dark Urge has during a long rest scene that occurs after starting Act Three. In the dream, Sceleritas comes to the Dark Urge and says, "Dear sister must die by your hand, an offering in Bhaal's sanctum" and that the Dark Urge must become the last of their line. The seeing together line is a reference that Orin knows they must duel each other to the death to see who the lone heir is. | The "Father will see us together again" line, to be clear, is in reference to the dream the Dark Urge has during a long rest scene that occurs after starting Act Three. In the dream, Sceleritas comes to the Dark Urge and says, "Dear sister must die by your hand, an offering in Bhaal's sanctum" and that the Dark Urge must become the last of their line. The seeing together line is a reference that Orin knows they must duel each other to the death to see who the lone heir is. | ||
==== Additional Information Against Orin and the Dark Urge ==== | |||
If the Dark Urge goes to Sharess' Caress and speaks to Nym and Sorn Orlith, there is an option to say "You two look uncannily alike." The subsequent dialogue option for the Dark Urge specifically if they choose to have a three-way with the twins is "I suppose I haven't ticked incest off the moral atrocities to-do list yet." This would imply that they have not experienced this before. | |||
=== Substantiated Claims === | === Substantiated Claims === | ||
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::: I don't feel like it's correct to leave that fact under "past sins" at all... the other two past sins have very solid evidence while the only evidence for hot slimy tentacle sex is a vague insinuation by a non-diegetic source ( the quest journal isn't written ''by'' anyone). It seems like the ''actual'' interactions with the Elder Brain suggest no tentacle sex occurred. I would suggest nixing it from "past sins" entirely and maaaybe adding it to the elder brain section, but again I also disagree that anything happened at all. | |||
::: I also disagree with the "discussion before removing information" when the information in question was reasonably thought to have been inaccurate. I think remove-plus-talk-page is a good combo. "Discuss before remove" is more of a policy for protected/controversial pages rather than the norm. Ofc, the dark urge page might in the future be controversial enough to protect, but at the moment that doesn't see to be the case! - [[User:Sky|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky|talk]]) 19:26, 5 October 2023 (CEST) | |||
:::: I don't see how the wording is claiming there was any actual copulation involved – it's a journal entry playfully invoking a common trope. I agree it should not be in the past sins section, though. It's more relevant for the article of the quest itself, than the Durge page. Discussing edits that have been in place on the wiki for some time before removing them has been the convention for some time. It's not simply for protected pages, of which we only have one (the Style Guide), I believe. In this case, the entries in question were added early in the article's lifespan at the request of another user, and have been around for over a month through several revisions. It is absolutely the policy to discuss (here or on the discord) before removing the entries, then, since they were sourced, and the disagreement was with the interpretation of said source. There has already been previous discussions elsewhere where it was decided the edits should stay. Therefore they should not be removed without further discussion, regardless of our personal opinions. [[User:Willowisp|Willowisp]] ([[User talk:Willowisp|talk]]) 20:28, 5 October 2023 (CEST) | |||
:::: Quick edit – I do agree that nothing happened though, I just want to follow the standard protocol that's been used on here for months now. [[User:Willowisp|Willowisp]] ([[User talk:Willowisp|talk]]) 21:11, 5 October 2023 (CEST) | |||
::::: I will say this...the reason I made the edit in the first place is because it caused a sizeable scuffle in the fandom due to the information being presented as 100% fact instead of the heavy interpretation that it is. If you would like to believe in that piece of headcanon, more power to you. But it's not objective. If you want to refer to the Open Your Scars journal entry...then the most objective method would be to quote it directly without the biased interpretation. Literally just say "The journal entry for Open Your Scars refers to the Dark Urge being 'good at playing with tentacles' in regards to the Elder Brain. However, the entries for that quest are not necessarily serious, and are open for interpretation." Then, people can decide if that means they actually had sex or not, instead of forcing that point of view on the reader. What is "obvious" and "definite" to you, in your interpretation, is not the case for others. I'm bowing out of this discussion now, but I will end with this - if you want BG3.wiki to be taken seriously as an accurate and unbiased source of information, allowing highly interpretive statements like this is not a great way to do that. [[User:Reve|Reve]] ([[User talk:Reve|talk]]) 23:19, 5 October 2023 (CEST) | |||
:::::: The part is currently phrased in a way that clarifies it's likely just playful wording. We'll let a day or so pass, and if no one else has chimed in, we can remove it. If it's important to people, someone will likely re-add it, at which point a longer discussion may be needed. I am confused as to why you are saying I am forcing a viewpoint down people's throats, since my interpretation is in agreement with yours. This is a wiki. Any single person does not decide what goes on here and doesn't. To prevent any edit conflicts and the potential protection of articles, it's best to have a discussion before removing long term elements from a page. I hope you can understand that. [[User:Willowisp|Willowisp]] ([[User talk:Willowisp|talk]]) 00:19, 6 October 2023 (CEST) | |||
:::::: I do think your suggested change to the phrasing is excellent though. I'll add it, but still think it may be worth removing the line entirely unless someone else has anything do add. [[User:Willowisp|Willowisp]] ([[User talk:Willowisp|talk]]) 00:37, 6 October 2023 (CEST) | |||
Since a few days have passed, I've made the change. If this proves contentious, someone will probably start discussion here again. [[User:Willowisp|Willowisp]] ([[User talk:Willowisp|talk]]) 00:44, 9 October 2023 (CEST) | |||