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| image = File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png | | image = File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png | ||
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}} | }}[[File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png|right]]A single attack, spell, trap, or other harmful effect can often result in multiple [[Damage Rolls]]. Determining the resulting damage from these various rolls can be difficult due to hidden mechanics which are commonly referred to by the community as '''damage "sources"''' and '''damage "riders".''' The term damage "instances" is sometimes used in place of damage "sources," but for the purpose of this page the only terms to be used are damage source(s) and damage rider(s). The game does not inform players what is a damage source vs. what is a damage rider, or how these two interact with each other. This page describes the mechanical differences between damage sources and damage riders, how they interact, and lists which effects and abilities fall into each category. | ||
[[File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png|right]]A single attack, spell, trap, or other harmful effect can often result in multiple [[Damage Rolls]]. Determining the resulting damage from these various rolls can be difficult due to hidden mechanics which are commonly referred to by the community as '''damage "sources"''' and '''damage "riders".''' The term damage "instances" is sometimes used in place of damage "sources," but for the purpose of this page the only terms to be used are damage source(s) and damage rider(s). The game does not inform players what is a damage source vs. what is a damage rider, or how these two interact with each other. This page describes the mechanical differences between damage sources and damage riders, how they interact, and lists which effects and abilities fall into each category. | |||
==Damage Sources (DS) vs. Damage Riders (DR)== | ==Damage Sources (DS) vs. Damage Riders (DR)== | ||
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{{anchor|damage-rider-as-source}} | {{anchor|damage-rider-as-source}} | ||
== Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS) == | ==Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS)== | ||
There are some damage riders which defy the typical trends described above. They still must "ride along" with a damage source in order to be applied, but when the damage is calculated they are treated as damage sources instead of damage riders. This means that these "'''damage riders which are treated as damage sources'''" can then cause normal damage riders to be applied once again as part of the same ability (e.g. attack or spell) which caused the damage. | There are some damage riders which defy the typical trends described above. They still must "ride along" with a damage source in order to be applied, but when the damage is calculated they are treated as damage sources instead of damage riders. This means that these "'''damage riders which are treated as damage sources'''" can then cause normal damage riders to be applied once again as part of the same ability (e.g. attack or spell) which caused the damage. | ||
===Example Calculation=== | |||
A character with 18 Strength, the [[Tavern Brawler]] Feat, {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}, and the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}} uses the {{SmItemIcon|Returning Pike}} to make a thrown weapon attack against a target which is affected by {{SAI|Hex}}. | |||
=== Example Calculation === | |||
A character with | |||
'''Damage Sources (DS):''' | '''Damage Sources (DS):''' | ||
*Thrown weapon attack using the {{SmItemIcon| | *Thrown weapon attack using the {{SmItemIcon|Returning Pike}} applies 1d10 (damage die) + 1 (weapon enchantment) + 4 (Strength modifier) piercing damage | ||
'''Damage Riders (DR):''' | '''Damage Riders (DR):''' | ||
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*The {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}} adds 1d4 damage which is of the same type as the weapon used (piercing in this example) to each damage source. | *The {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}} adds 1d4 damage which is of the same type as the weapon used (piercing in this example) to each damage source. | ||
*{{SAI|Hex}} adds 1d6 necrotic damage to each damage source. | *{{SAI|Hex}} adds 1d6 necrotic damage to each damage source. | ||
'''Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS):''' | '''Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS):''' | ||
*The | *The [[Tavern Brawler]] feat allows characters to add their Strength modifier an additional time to damage rolls when using unarmed strikes, improvised weapons, or thrown weapons. When applied to melee attacks this damage bonus is treated as a damage rider. But as of [[Patch Notes|Patch 3]] with thrown weapons, this +4 piercing damage from the character's strength score being applied a second time due to the tavern brawler feat being treated as a damage source. | ||
'''Calculating total damage:''' | '''Calculating total damage:''' | ||
To determine the total damage applied take each DS and DRS. Then apply the damage riders onto each of these. In this example that means one should evaluate the | To determine the total damage applied take each DS and DRS. Then apply the damage riders onto each of these. In this example that means one should evaluate the pike damage source plus all damage riders, followed by the Tavern Brawler damage source and all damage riders applied again. | ||
[[Tavern Brawler]] on thrown weapon attacks is a '''DRS''', meaning the damage roll in the above scenario would on average yield 28.5 total damage (ignoring resistances) calculated as follows: | |||
*{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon| | *{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d10|Piercing}} 1d10 (5.5 avg) (weapon damage die) + 1 (weapon enchantment) + 4 (Strength modifier) {{DamageType|Piercing}}}} from the {{SmItemIcon|Returning Pike}} thrown weapon attack, [DS] | ||
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Piercing}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Piercing}}}} damage from the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}}, [DR] | **{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Piercing}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Piercing}}}} damage from the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}}, [DR] | ||
**{{InfoBlob|+1 {{DamageType|Lightning}} damage}} from {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}, [DR] | **{{InfoBlob|+1 {{DamageType|Lightning}} damage}} from {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}, [DR] | ||
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d6|Necrotic}} +1d6 (3.5 avg) {{DamageType|Necrotic}}}} damage from {{SAI|Hex}}, [DR] | **{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d6|Necrotic}} +1d6 (3.5 avg) {{DamageType|Necrotic}}}} damage from {{SAI|Hex}}, [DR] | ||
As a ''hypothetical'' scenario to show the impact that this minor detail can have, instead imagine | *{{InfoBlob|+4 {{DamageType|Piercing}} damage}} from [[Tavern Brawler]], [DRS] | ||
**{{InfoBlob|+1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Piercing}} damage}} from the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}} being applied to Tavern Brawler damage source, [DR] | |||
**{{InfoBlob|+1 {{DamageType|Lightning}} damage}} from {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}} being applied to Tavern Brawler damage source, [DR] | |||
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d6|Necrotic}} +1d6 (3.5 avg) {{DamageType|Necrotic}}}} damage from {{SAI|Hex}} being applied to Tavern Brawler damage source [DR] | |||
As a ''hypothetical'' scenario to show the impact that this minor detail can have, instead imagine [[Tavern Brawler]] were to be treated as a DR in the above scenairo. In this ''hypothetical'' scenario the above damage roll would yield 21.5 total damage on average (ignoring resistances) calculated as follows: | |||
*{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon| | *{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d10|Piercing}} 1d10 (5.5 avg) (weapon damage die) + 1 (weapon enchantment) + 4 (Strength modifier) {{DamageType|Piercing}}}} from the {{SmItemIcon|Returning Pike}} thrown weapon attack, [DS] | ||
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Piercing}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Piercing}}}} damage from the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}}, [DR] | **{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Piercing}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Piercing}}}} damage from the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}}, [DR] | ||
**{{InfoBlob|+1 {{DamageType|Lightning}} damage}} from {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}, [DR] | **{{InfoBlob|+1 {{DamageType|Lightning}} damage}} from {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}, [DR] | ||
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d6|Necrotic}} +1d6 (3.5 avg) {{DamageType|Necrotic}}}} damage from {{SAI|Hex}}, [DR] | **{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d6|Necrotic}} +1d6 (3.5 avg) {{DamageType|Necrotic}}}} damage from {{SAI|Hex}}, [DR] | ||
**{{InfoBlob|+ | **{{InfoBlob|+4 {{DamageType|Piercing}} damage}} from [[Tavern Brawler]], [If Tavern Brawler were to ''hypothetically'' be treated as a DR with thrown weapon attacks] | ||
==DRS effects== | ==DRS effects== | ||
The following are a list of items and abilities which have DRS effects, and what the relevant DRS effect is. | The following are a list of items and abilities which have DRS effects, and what the relevant DRS effect is. | ||
{| class="wikitable" | {| class="wikitable" | ||
|+[[Weapons]] | |+[[Weapons]] | ||
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|One | |One | ||
|'''Break the Unbroken:''' Deal an additional {{DamageText|1d8|Piercing}} damage to targets that still have all their hitpoints. | |'''Break the Unbroken:''' Deal an additional {{DamageText|1d8|Piercing}} damage to targets that still have all their hitpoints. | ||
|The target must be at full health | |The target must be at full health. | ||
|- | |- | ||
|{{RarityItem|The Blast Pendant|alias=The Blast Pendant: Lightning Blast}} | |{{RarityItem|The Blast Pendant|alias=The Blast Pendant: Lightning Blast}} | ||
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|Two | |Two | ||
|On a [[Critical Hit]], the target takes an extra {{DamageText|10|Necrotic}} damage as long as it isn't a construct or an undead. You also gain 10 [[Temporary Hit Points|temporary hit points]]. | |On a [[Critical Hit]], the target takes an extra {{DamageText|10|Necrotic}} damage as long as it isn't a construct or an undead. You also gain 10 [[Temporary Hit Points|temporary hit points]]. | ||
| | |N/a | ||
|- | |- | ||
|{{RarityItem|The Undead Bane|alias=The Undead Bane: Profane Scourge}} | |{{RarityItem|The Undead Bane|alias=The Undead Bane: Profane Scourge}} | ||
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|Shoot a volley of thorns. They deal {{DamageText|weapon damage|Physical}} and explode, dealing an additional {{DamageText|1d10|Piercing}} damage to the target and surrounding creatures. | |Shoot a volley of thorns. They deal {{DamageText|weapon damage|Physical}} and explode, dealing an additional {{DamageText|1d10|Piercing}} damage to the target and surrounding creatures. | ||
|The initial hit and explosion are separate damage sources. | |The initial hit and explosion are separate damage sources. | ||
|- | |- | ||
|{{SAI|Ice Knife}} | |{{SAI|Ice Knife}} | ||
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|{{SAI|Blinding Smite}} | |{{SAI|Blinding Smite}} | ||
|3rd Level [[Spells|Spell]] | |3rd Level [[Spells|Spell]] | ||
|Evoke a heavenly flare and possibly {{Cond | |Evoke a heavenly flare and possibly {{Cond|Blind}} your target. In addition, your weapon deals an additional {{DamageText|3d8|Radiant}} damage. | ||
|The weapon damage and extra radiant damage are separate damage sources. Blinding Smite allows spell based bonus damage to ride along with weapon based damage riders as sources. | |The weapon damage and extra radiant damage are separate damage sources. Blinding Smite allows spell based bonus damage to ride along with weapon based damage riders as sources. | ||
|- | |- | ||
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|This spell allows spellcasters to project a beam of light, Blinding and dealing {{DamageText | 6d8 | Radiant}} damage to everything in its path. You can then use {{SAI|Recast Sunbeam}} on subsequent turns without expending a Spell Slot. | |This spell allows spellcasters to project a beam of light, Blinding and dealing {{DamageText | 6d8 | Radiant}} damage to everything in its path. You can then use {{SAI|Recast Sunbeam}} on subsequent turns without expending a Spell Slot. | ||
| The additional activations apply most damage riders and are a separate damage source. | | The additional activations apply most damage riders and are a separate damage source. | ||
|} | |||
{| class="wikitable" | |||
|+Other Abilities | |||
! width="15%" |Ability | |||
!Ability Type | |||
!Relevant Effect | |||
!Notes | |||
|- | |||
|{{SAI|Hunter's Mark}} | |||
|1st Level [[Spells|Spell]] | |||
|Mark a creature as your quarry to deal an additional {{DamageText|1d6|Physical}} damage whenever you hit it with a weapon attack. | |||
|Only when used with thrown weapon attacks. | |||
|- | |||
|{{SAI|Tavern Brawler}} | |||
|[[Feats|Feat]] | |||
|When you make an unarmed attack, use an improvised weapon, or throw something, your strength modifier is added twice to the damage and [[Attack Roll]] | |||
|Only when used with thrown weapon attacks. | |||
|} | |} | ||
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*[[Patch Notes|Patch 3]] changed [[Lightning Charges (Condition)|Lightning Charges]] from a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" to a "Damage Rider." | *[[Patch Notes|Patch 3]] changed [[Lightning Charges (Condition)|Lightning Charges]] from a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" to a "Damage Rider." | ||
* | *[[Tavern Brawler]] is treated as a Damage Rider with unarmed attacks and improvised weapon attacks, but as a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" when it comes to thrown weapon attacks. | ||
*[[Sneak Attack (Disambiguation)|Sneak Attack]] is treated as a Damage Rider when a character uses the Sneak Attack action, but as a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" when Sneak Attack is applied by the automatic reaction system. | *[[Sneak Attack (Disambiguation)|Sneak Attack]] is treated as a Damage Rider when a character uses the Sneak Attack action, but as a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" when Sneak Attack is applied by the automatic reaction system. | ||
{{NavGameplay}} | {{NavGameplay}} |