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Damage mechanics (edit)

Revision as of 09:49, 6 May 2024

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| image = File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png
| image = File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png
| type = article
| type = article
}}[[File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png|right]]A single attack, spell, trap, or other harmful effect can often result in multiple [[Damage Rolls]]. Determining the resulting damage from these various rolls can be difficult due to hidden mechanics which are commonly referred to by the community as '''damage "sources"''' and '''damage "riders".''' The term damage "instances" is sometimes used in place of damage "sources," but for the purpose of this page the only terms to be used are damage source(s) and damage rider(s). The game does not inform players what is a damage source vs. what is a damage rider, or how these two interact with each other. This page describes the mechanical differences between damage sources and damage riders, how they interact, and lists which effects and abilities fall into each category.
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[[File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png|right]]A single attack, spell, trap, or other harmful effect can often result in multiple [[Damage Rolls]]. Determining the resulting damage from these various rolls can be difficult due to hidden mechanics which are commonly referred to by the community as '''damage "sources"''' and '''damage "riders".''' The term damage "instances" is sometimes used in place of damage "sources," but for the purpose of this page the only terms to be used are damage source(s) and damage rider(s). The game does not inform players what is a damage source vs. what is a damage rider, or how these two interact with each other. This page describes the mechanical differences between damage sources and damage riders, how they interact, and lists which effects and abilities fall into each category.


==Damage Sources (DS) vs. Damage Riders (DR)==
==Damage Sources (DS) vs. Damage Riders (DR)==
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{{anchor|damage-rider-as-source}}
{{anchor|damage-rider-as-source}}


==Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS)==
== Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS) ==


There are some damage riders which defy the typical trends described above. They still must "ride along" with a damage source in order to be applied, but when the damage is calculated they are treated as damage sources instead of damage riders. This means that these "'''damage riders which are treated as damage sources'''" can then cause normal damage riders to be applied once again as part of the same ability (e.g. attack or spell) which caused the damage.
There are some damage riders which defy the typical trends described above. They still must "ride along" with a damage source in order to be applied, but when the damage is calculated they are treated as damage sources instead of damage riders. This means that these "'''damage riders which are treated as damage sources'''" can then cause normal damage riders to be applied once again as part of the same ability (e.g. attack or spell) which caused the damage.
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'''Nearly all DRS effects are treated like normal Damage Riders when playing on Honour mode, making much of the following information irrelevant for those players.'''
'''Nearly all DRS effects are treated like normal Damage Riders when playing on Honour mode, making much of the following information irrelevant for those players.'''


=== Example Calculation ===


===Example Calculation===
A character with 20 Strength, the [[Tavern Brawler]] Feat, {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}, and the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}} uses the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}} to make a thrown weapon attack against a target which is affected by {{SAI|Hex}}.
A character with 20 Strength, the [[Tavern Brawler]] Feat, {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}, and the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}} uses the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}} to make a thrown weapon attack against a target which is affected by {{SAI|Hex}}.


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'''Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS):'''
'''Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS):'''


*The additional 1d4 damage from the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}} is a damage rider treated as a damage source. This means it will cause all of the Damage Riders listed above to activate a second time.
*The additional 1d4 damage from {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}}'s passive, [[Throwing: Lightning Damage]],  is a damage rider treated as a damage source. This means it will cause all of the Damage Riders listed above to activate a second time.
 


'''Calculating total damage:'''
'''Calculating total damage:'''
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**{{InfoBlob|+5 {{DamageType|Piercing}} damage}} damage from [[Tavern Brawler]] on a character with 20 Strength, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|+5 {{DamageType|Piercing}} damage}} damage from [[Tavern Brawler]] on a character with 20 Strength, [DR]


*{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Lightning}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Lightning}}}} damage}} from the bonus effect of throwing the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}}, [DRS]
*{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Lightning}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Lightning}}}} damage from the bonus effect of throwing the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}}, [DRS]
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Piercing}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Piercing}}}} damage from the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}}, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Piercing}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Piercing}}}} damage from the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}}, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|+1 {{DamageType|Lightning}} damage}} from {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|+1 {{DamageType|Lightning}} damage}} from {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}, [DR]
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**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d6|Necrotic}} +1d6 (3.5 avg) {{DamageType|Necrotic}}}} damage from {{SAI|Hex}}, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d6|Necrotic}} +1d6 (3.5 avg) {{DamageType|Necrotic}}}} damage from {{SAI|Hex}}, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|+5 {{DamageType|Piercing}} damage}} damage from [[Tavern Brawler]] on a character with 20 Strength, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|+5 {{DamageType|Piercing}} damage}} damage from [[Tavern Brawler]] on a character with 20 Strength, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Lightning}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Lightning}}}} damage}} from the bonus effect of throwing the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}} in the ''hypothetical'' scenario where it is treated as a traditional damage rider [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Lightning}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Lightning}}}} damage from the bonus effect of throwing the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}} in the ''hypothetical'' scenario where it is treated as a traditional damage rider [DR]


This is a simple example to demonstrate the underlying principles. By mixing and matching multiple DR and DRS effects it is possible to deal hundreds (and in extreme cases with proper conditions over thousands) of points of damage with a single attack.
This is a simple example to demonstrate the underlying principles. By mixing and matching multiple DR and DRS effects it is possible to deal hundreds (and in extreme cases with proper conditions over thousands) of points of damage with a single attack.
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|{{LgItemIcon|Arrow of Acid}}
|{{LgItemIcon|Arrow of Acid}}
|All
|All
|Deals Weapon Damage + {{DamageText|2d4|Acid}} ([[Saving Throw|Dexterity Save]] to negate). Creates a permanent [[Acid Surface]].
|Deals Weapon Damage + {{DamageText|2d4|Acid}} ([[Saving Throw|Dexterity Save]] to negate). Creates a permanent {{Area|Acid (surface)}} Surface.
|N/a
|N/a
|-
|-
|{{LgItemIcon|Arrow of Fire}}
|{{LgItemIcon|Arrow of Fire}}
|All
|All
|Deals weapon damage + {{DamageText|2d4|Fire}} ([[Saving Throw|Dexterity Save]] to negate). Creates a [[Fire Surface]] for 2 turns.
|Deals weapon damage + {{DamageText|2d4|Fire}} ([[Saving Throw|Dexterity Save]] to negate). Creates a {{Area|Fire (surface)}} Surface for 2 turns.
|N/a
|N/a
|-
|-
|{{LgItemIcon|Arrow of Ice}}
|{{LgItemIcon|Arrow of Ice}}
|All
|All
|Deals weapon damage + {{DamageText|2d4|Cold}} ([[Saving Throw|Dexterity Save]] to negate). Creates an [[Ice Surface]] for 2 turns.
|Deals weapon damage + {{DamageText|2d4|Cold}} ([[Saving Throw|Dexterity Save]] to negate). Creates an {{Area|Ice (surface)}} for 2 turns.
|N/a
|N/a
|-
|-
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|One
|One
|'''Break the Unbroken:''' Deal an additional {{DamageText|1d8|Piercing}} damage to targets that still have all their hitpoints.
|'''Break the Unbroken:''' Deal an additional {{DamageText|1d8|Piercing}} damage to targets that still have all their hitpoints.
|The target must be at full health.
|The target must be at full health. Only applies to attacks made with the weapon itself.
|-
|-
|{{RarityItem|The Blast Pendant|alias=The Blast Pendant: Lightning Blast}}
|{{RarityItem|The Blast Pendant|alias=The Blast Pendant: Lightning Blast}}
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|Two
|Two
|On a [[Critical Hit]], the target takes an extra {{DamageText|10|Necrotic}} damage as long as it isn't a construct or an undead. You also gain 10 [[Temporary Hit Points|temporary hit points]].
|On a [[Critical Hit]], the target takes an extra {{DamageText|10|Necrotic}} damage as long as it isn't a construct or an undead. You also gain 10 [[Temporary Hit Points|temporary hit points]].
|N/a
|The Life Stealing Critical passive is coded to only function when Sword of Life Stealing crits, even though the description appears to say it functions off any critical hit.
|-
|-
|{{RarityItem|The Undead Bane|alias=The Undead Bane: Profane Scourge}}
|{{RarityItem|The Undead Bane|alias=The Undead Bane: Profane Scourge}}
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|{{SAI|Ice Knife}}
|{{SAI|Ice Knife}}
|1st Level [[Spells|Spell]]
|1st Level [[Spells|Spell]]
|Throw a shard of ice that deals {{DamageText|1d10|Piercing}} damage. It explodes and deals {{DamageText|2d6|Cold}} damage to anyone nearby. It leaves an [[Ice Surface]]. On miss, the shard of ice still explodes.
|Throw a shard of ice that deals {{DamageText|1d10|Piercing}} damage. It explodes and deals {{DamageText|2d6|Cold}} damage to anyone nearby. It leaves an {{Area|Ice (surface)}} Surface. On miss, the shard of ice still explodes.
|The Piercing and Cold Damage are separate damage sources.  
|The Piercing and Cold Damage are separate damage sources.  
|-
|-
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|{{SAI|Blinding Smite}}
|{{SAI|Blinding Smite}}
|3rd Level [[Spells|Spell]]
|3rd Level [[Spells|Spell]]
|Evoke a heavenly flare and possibly {{Cond|Blind}} your target.  In addition, your weapon deals an additional {{DamageText|3d8|Radiant}} damage.
|Evoke a heavenly flare and possibly {{Cond|Blinded|Blind}} your target.  In addition, your weapon deals an additional {{DamageText|3d8|Radiant}} damage.
|The weapon damage and extra radiant damage are separate damage sources.  Blinding Smite allows spell based bonus damage to ride along with weapon based damage riders as sources.  
|The weapon damage and extra radiant damage are separate damage sources.  Blinding Smite allows spell based bonus damage to ride along with weapon based damage riders as sources.  
|-
|-
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|{{SAI|Ice Storm}}
|{{SAI|Ice Storm}}
|4th Level [[Spells|Spell]]
|4th Level [[Spells|Spell]]
|Impel a storm of hail and ice to crash from the sky, covering the ground and striking all objects and creatures within range, dealing {{DamageType|Bludgeoning}} and {{DamageType|Cold}} damage. It also creates an [[Ice Surface]] that lasts 2 turns.  
|Impel a storm of hail and ice to crash from the sky, covering the ground and striking all objects and creatures within range, dealing {{DamageType|Bludgeoning}} and {{DamageType|Cold}} damage. It also creates an {{Area|Ice (surface)}} Surface that lasts 2 turns.  
|The Bludgeoning and Cold damage are separate damage sources.  
|The Bludgeoning and Cold damage are separate damage sources.  
|-
|-
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*[[Patch Notes|Patch 5]]'s patch-notes mention a change to [[Tavern Brawler]] in regards to thrown weapons, likely intending to change it from a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" to a "Damage Rider" - in fact no change was made. Instead, Dwarven Thrower, Lightning Jabber, and Hunter's Mark were updated in a comparable manner, leaving them still able to trigger certain other DRS-effects while not applying Damage Riders themselves.
*[[Patch Notes|Patch 5]]'s patch-notes mention a change to [[Tavern Brawler]] in regards to thrown weapons, likely intending to change it from a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" to a "Damage Rider" - in fact no change was made. Instead, Dwarven Thrower, Lightning Jabber, and Hunter's Mark were updated in a comparable manner, leaving them still able to trigger certain other DRS-effects while not applying Damage Riders themselves.
*[[Sneak Attack (Disambiguation)|Sneak Attack]] is treated as a Damage Rider when a character uses the Sneak Attack action, but as a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" when Sneak Attack is applied by the automatic reaction system.
*[[Sneak Attack (Disambiguation)|Sneak Attack]] is treated as a Damage Rider when a character uses the Sneak Attack action, but as a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" when Sneak Attack is applied by the automatic reaction system.
[[Category:Bugs]]
{{NavGameplay}}
{{NavGameplay}}
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