Guide:Selling

Introduction

Although it has been described in great detail when it is optimal to gift a trader for best price when buying, it has not yet been discussed when it is optimal for selling. The objective when selling is to reduce our gold loss as much as possible.

Mechanics of Trading

Without reiterating upon the Trading and Item Pricing page, to reduce our expenses when buying and simultaneously reduce losses when selling, we as players want to increase our Persuasion modifier and gift gold to the trader of intent.

These factors generate a proportional value which is used to multiply the base value price of an item when buying and divide the base value price of an item when selling (i.e. a base value item of 100gp would be 150gp to buy from a trader, but only 67gp to sell to the trader). However, this proportional value is capped at 1, meaning there is a limit to how much you can maximise your gains when selling but does mean buying and selling will become equal (i.e. that base value item of 100gp would be 100gp to buy from a trader, and 100gp to sell to the trader).

Increasing the Persuasion modifier is done through increasing proficiency bonus (levelling up), increasing the number of time proficiency bonus is applied (expertise) and increasing Charisma (through items or ability score improvements).

For simplicity, it is assumed no items or tadpole abilities are used to boost modifiers. It is also assumed no modding is applied and players rely on base game character creation.

Characteristics of Selling

The following are "natural" ways to boost Persuasion score within the game:

Charisma

The maximum natural value of Charisma is 20 meaning a maximum modifier of +5 to all checks.

Persuasion Proficiency

At level 1, we start with options are available to start with Persuasion proficiency. These can be seen in more details here.

Expertise

Expertise is available in the base game at Level 1 for Rogues, or Level 3 for Bards.

Character Build

It is assumed throughout that one character is used solely for the purposes of maximising gains when buying or selling. As mentioned before, it is assumed no items are used to boost modifiers. A Bard or Rogue can be used after level 3 but for the purposes of this demonstration, only a Rogue is used.

Normal Mode

• Character Creation - Ensure Persuasion proficiency is chosen (class, background or race is an option at this point)
• Level 1 - Rogue 1 - 16 Charisma with Expertise in Persuasion
• Level 4 - Rogue 4 - Feat -> Ability Score Improvement -> +2 Charisma (Total: 18)

As of Level 5, when in Normal mode, we are able to reach the proportional value limit of 1, as mentioned above, when gifting gold to raise a trader's attitude to 100 meaning the build can be fully optimised as of this point.

Character Build with Proportional Value at Trader Attitude of 0 in Normal Mode

Level	Charisma	Proficiency Bonus	Total Persuasion Proficiency	P-Value
1	3	2	7	1.8
2	3	2	7	1.8
3	3	2	7	1.8
4	4	2	8	1.7
5	4	3	10	1.5
6	4	3	10	1.5
7	4	3	10	1.5
8	5	3	11	1.5
9	5	4	13	1.4
10	5	4	13	1.2
11	5	4	13	1.2
12	5	4	13	1.2

Character Build with Proportional Value at Trader Attitude of 100 in Normal Mode

Level	Charisma	Proficiency Bonus	Total Persuasion Proficiency	P-Value
1	3	2	7	1.3
2	3	2	7	1.3
3	3	2	7	1.3
4	4	2	8	1.2
5	4	3	10	1.0
6	4	3	10	1.0
7	4	3	10	1.0
8	5	3	11	1.0
9	5	4	13	1.0
10	5	4	13	1.0
11	5	4	13	1.0
12	5	4	13	1.0

Tactician Mode

Within Tactician mode, a -0.5 factor is applied to the trader's P-Value meaning we are never able to obtain a P-Value of 1, as we are in normal mode. This, in turn, means there is benefit to continue to level up to increase proficiency and maximise the character's Charisma score.

Continuing on from normal mode build, above:

• Level 8 - Rogue 8 - Feat -> Ability Score Improvement -> +2 Charisma (Total: 20)

As of Level 8, there is nothing we can naturally do to the character. The only remaining thing that increases as we level for the character is proficiency bonus.

Character Build with Proportional Value at Trader Attitude of 0 in Normal Mode

Level	Charisma	Proficiency Bonus	Total Persuasion Proficiency	P-Value
1	3	2	7	2.3
2	3	2	7	2.3
3	3	2	7	2.3
4	4	2	8	2.2
5	4	3	10	2.0
6	4	3	10	2.0
7	4	3	10	2.0
8	5	3	11	2.0
9	5	4	13	1.9
10	5	4	13	1.7
11	5	4	13	1.7
12	5	4	13	1.7

Character Build with Proportional Value at Trader Attitude of 100 in Normal Mode

Level	Charisma	Proficiency Bonus	Total Persuasion Proficiency	P-Value
1	3	2	7	1.8
2	3	2	7	1.8
3	3	2	7	1.8
4	4	2	8	1.7
5	4	3	10	1.5
6	4	3	10	1.5
7	4	3	10	1.5
8	5	3	11	1.4
9	5	4	13	1.2
10	5	4	13	1.2
11	5	4	13	1.2
12	5	4	13	1.2

With these build in mind, we now ask at what point should we consider gifting?

Optimal Gifting for Selling

Normal Mode

Here we show five possible scenarios:

1. Keep a character at level 1 as described above, and gift nothing
2. Keep a character at level 5 as described above, and gift nothing
3. Keep a character at level 1 as described above, and gift to raise the trader's attitude to 100
4. Keep a character at level 5 as described above, and gift to raise the trader's attitude to 100
5. And, reset a character to level 1 and gift to raise trader's attitude to 100, then level up to Level 5

The x-axis shows an increasing base value price of items, while the y-axis shows how much gold was lost when selling.

In each scenario, we are trying to reduce the gold value lost for each sale.

From the chart, we see staying at Level 1 and gifting is beneficial for selling up until around 500gp worth of item value.

We see that remaining at Level 1 without gifting is beneficial for selling up until around 1,200gp worth of item value.

Whilst remaining at Level 5 without gifting is beneficial for selling up until 1,500gp worth of item value.

This is if we assume we are happy to return to Withers to respec before selling when meeting a new trader. This costs 500gp resulting from 100gp to respec our character, and then 400gp to raise the trader's attitude to 100 as a Level 1 character.

If we are not content with doing this, the result is doubled - i.e. the character can remain at level 5 without gifting until 3,000gp of items are ready to sell.

Tactician Mode

In Tactician mode, as mentioned previously, it is beneficial to continue improving a character's Persuasion score through Charisma increase and proficiency bonus increases. The last increase occurs at Level 9 with the final jump in proficiency to a +4 and this is shown below.

Here we show three more possible scenarios in addition to the five already mentioned above:

1. Keep a character at level 9 as described above, and gift nothing
2. Keep a character at level 9 as described above, and gift to raise the trader's attitude to 100
3. And, reset a character to level 1 and gift to raise trader's attitude to 100, then level up to Level 9

As before, the x-axis shows an increasing base value price of items, while the y-axis shows how much gold was lost when selling.

Here, we see that there is no flat line meaning we are always losing some proportion of gold when selling on to traders. But, after around 2,000gp of base value items, it is more beneficial to respec with Withers first to improve the trader's attitude, and level up to the maximum possible P-Value.

Including Items in Tactician Mode

The main query that arose from the Tactician analysis was - is it possible to reduce the P-Value to 1 and when does that occur?

Gifting

The answer is a Persuasion modifier of 15 and above, when gifting to increase a trader's attitude to 100. This can be achieved easily through various items which are outlined in brief and linked below.

Not Gifting

When not gifting, this is not possible. The lowest, as far as can be determined, is a P-Value of 1.4. This is possible with a 24 Charisma score and one item which boosts the character's persuasion by 1 additional points.

This would suggest that if you return to the same trader multiple times for selling, it is most beneficial to gift.

Items of Note

Charisma Boost

Birthright: +2 Charisma (up to 22)

Duke Ravengard's Longsword: +2 Charisma (up to 24)

Mirror of Loss: +2 to any chosen ability, and potentially additional +1 to Charisma (up to 24)

Persuasion Boost

Ring of Geniality: +1 Persuasion

As can be seen, items that increase Charisma is capped at a maximum of 24, or +7 modifier.

There are many items which increase Persuasion checks but only one which actually boosts the value which is what is used when interacting with traders.

Conclusion

In both normal and tactician mode, the best scenario is naturally dependent on what level you currently are when you want to sell items and how much you want to sell. Often, how much you want to sell needs to be estimated as you will likely return to them multiple times throughout.

An example of this is Dammon, who has the potential to appear through all acts of the game. In this case, gifting him at level 1 is best. If in normal mode, the option is available to hoard items and sell them in bulk to Dammon when reaching Level 5 for the P-Value of 1.

Ultimately, best practice would be to always respec to level 1, gift the trader of intent to raise their attitude then level up. However, this should only be done at a key Level, or where significant gains are to be made like Level 5 with the first proficiency boost.

This also assumes you aren't stealing your respec gold back from Withers meaning even further savings.