Damage mechanics: Difference between revisions

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Damage mechanics (edit)

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| image = File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png
| image = File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png
| type = article
| type = article
}}[[File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png|right]]A single attack, spell, trap, or other harmful effect can often result in multiple [[Damage Rolls]]. Determining the resulting damage from these various rolls can be difficult due to hidden mechanics which are commonly referred to by the community as '''damage "sources"''' and '''damage "riders".''' The term damage "instances" is sometimes used in place of damage "sources," but for the purpose of this page the only terms to be used are damage source(s) and damage rider(s). The game does not inform players what is a damage source vs. what is a damage rider, or how these two interact with each other. This page describes the mechanical differences between damage sources and damage riders, how they interact, and lists which effects and abilities fall into each category.
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[[File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png|right]]A single attack, spell, trap, or other harmful effect can often result in multiple [[Damage Rolls]]. Determining the resulting damage from these various rolls can be difficult due to hidden mechanics which are commonly referred to by the community as '''damage "sources"''' and '''damage "riders".''' The term damage "instances" is sometimes used in place of damage "sources," but for the purpose of this page the only terms to be used are damage source(s) and damage rider(s). The game does not inform players what is a damage source vs. what is a damage rider, or how these two interact with each other. This page describes the mechanical differences between damage sources and damage riders, how they interact, and lists which effects and abilities fall into each category.


==Damage Sources (DS) vs. Damage Riders (DR)==
==Damage Sources (DS) vs. Damage Riders (DR)==
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{{anchor|damage-rider-as-source}}
{{anchor|damage-rider-as-source}}


==Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS)==
== Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS) ==


There are some damage riders which defy the typical trends described above. They still must "ride along" with a damage source in order to be applied, but when the damage is calculated they are treated as damage sources instead of damage riders. This means that these "'''damage riders which are treated as damage sources'''" can then cause normal damage riders to be applied once again as part of the same ability (e.g. attack or spell) which caused the damage.
There are some damage riders which defy the typical trends described above. They still must "ride along" with a damage source in order to be applied, but when the damage is calculated they are treated as damage sources instead of damage riders. This means that these "'''damage riders which are treated as damage sources'''" can then cause normal damage riders to be applied once again as part of the same ability (e.g. attack or spell) which caused the damage.
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'''Nearly all DRS effects are treated like normal Damage Riders when playing on Honour mode, making much of the following information irrelevant for those players.'''
'''Nearly all DRS effects are treated like normal Damage Riders when playing on Honour mode, making much of the following information irrelevant for those players.'''


=== Example Calculation ===


===Example Calculation===
A character with 20 Strength, the [[Tavern Brawler]] Feat, {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}, and the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}} uses the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}} to make a thrown weapon attack against a target which is affected by {{SAI|Hex}}.
A character with 20 Strength, the [[Tavern Brawler]] Feat, {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}, and the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}} uses the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}} to make a thrown weapon attack against a target which is affected by {{SAI|Hex}}.


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'''Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS):'''
'''Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS):'''


*The additional 1d4 damage from the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}} is a damage rider treated as a damage source. This means it will cause all of the Damage Riders listed above to activate a second time.
*The additional 1d4 damage from {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}}'s passive, [[Throwing: Lightning Damage]],  is a damage rider treated as a damage source. This means it will cause all of the Damage Riders listed above to activate a second time.
 


'''Calculating total damage:'''
'''Calculating total damage:'''
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**{{InfoBlob|+5 {{DamageType|Piercing}} damage}} damage from [[Tavern Brawler]] on a character with 20 Strength, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|+5 {{DamageType|Piercing}} damage}} damage from [[Tavern Brawler]] on a character with 20 Strength, [DR]


*{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Lightning}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Lightning}}}} damage}} from the bonus effect of throwing the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}}, [DRS]
*{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Lightning}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Lightning}}}} damage from the bonus effect of throwing the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}}, [DRS]
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Piercing}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Piercing}}}} damage from the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}}, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Piercing}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Piercing}}}} damage from the {{SmItemIcon|Ring of Flinging}}, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|+1 {{DamageType|Lightning}} damage}} from {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|+1 {{DamageType|Lightning}} damage}} from {{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}, [DR]
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**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d6|Necrotic}} +1d6 (3.5 avg) {{DamageType|Necrotic}}}} damage from {{SAI|Hex}}, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d6|Necrotic}} +1d6 (3.5 avg) {{DamageType|Necrotic}}}} damage from {{SAI|Hex}}, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|+5 {{DamageType|Piercing}} damage}} damage from [[Tavern Brawler]] on a character with 20 Strength, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|+5 {{DamageType|Piercing}} damage}} damage from [[Tavern Brawler]] on a character with 20 Strength, [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Lightning}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Lightning}}}} damage}} from the bonus effect of throwing the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}} in the ''hypothetical'' scenario where it is treated as a traditional damage rider [DR]
**{{InfoBlob|{{DieIcon|d4|Lightning}} +1d4 (2.5 avg) {{DamageType|Lightning}}}} damage from the bonus effect of throwing the {{SmItemIcon|Lightning Jabber}} in the ''hypothetical'' scenario where it is treated as a traditional damage rider [DR]


This is a simple example to demonstrate the underlying principles. By mixing and matching multiple DR and DRS effects it is possible to deal hundreds (and in extreme cases with proper conditions over thousands) of points of damage with a single attack.
This is a simple example to demonstrate the underlying principles. By mixing and matching multiple DR and DRS effects it is possible to deal hundreds (and in extreme cases with proper conditions over thousands) of points of damage with a single attack.


==DRS effects==
==DRS effects==
The following are a list of items and abilities which have DRS effects, and what the relevant DRS effect is.
The following are a list of items and abilities which have DRS effects, and what the relevant DRS effect is. ''Most of the below effects appear to instead be treated as normal damage riders for Honour mode difficulty, so the below tables should only be applied to other difficulty settings.''
{| class="wikitable"
{| class="wikitable"
|+[[Weapons]]
|+[[Weapons]]
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|One
|One
|'''Break the Unbroken:''' Deal an additional {{DamageText|1d8|Piercing}} damage to targets that still have all their hitpoints.
|'''Break the Unbroken:''' Deal an additional {{DamageText|1d8|Piercing}} damage to targets that still have all their hitpoints.
|The target must be at full health.
|The target must be at full health. Only applies to attacks made with the weapon itself.
|-
|-
|{{RarityItem|The Blast Pendant|alias=The Blast Pendant: Lightning Blast}}
|{{RarityItem|The Blast Pendant|alias=The Blast Pendant: Lightning Blast}}
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|Two
|Two
|On a [[Critical Hit]], the target takes an extra {{DamageText|10|Necrotic}} damage as long as it isn't a construct or an undead. You also gain 10 [[Temporary Hit Points|temporary hit points]].
|On a [[Critical Hit]], the target takes an extra {{DamageText|10|Necrotic}} damage as long as it isn't a construct or an undead. You also gain 10 [[Temporary Hit Points|temporary hit points]].
|N/a
|The Life Stealing Critical passive is coded to only function when Sword of Life Stealing crits, even though the description appears to say it functions off any critical hit.
|-
|-
|{{RarityItem|The Undead Bane|alias=The Undead Bane: Profane Scourge}}
|{{RarityItem|The Undead Bane|alias=The Undead Bane: Profane Scourge}}
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|Shoot a volley of thorns. They deal {{DamageText|weapon damage|Physical}} and explode, dealing an additional {{DamageText|1d10|Piercing}} damage to the target and surrounding creatures.
|Shoot a volley of thorns. They deal {{DamageText|weapon damage|Physical}} and explode, dealing an additional {{DamageText|1d10|Piercing}} damage to the target and surrounding creatures.
|The initial hit and explosion are separate damage sources.  
|The initial hit and explosion are separate damage sources.  
|-
|{{SAI|Hunter's Mark}}
|1st Level [[Spells|Spell]]
|Mark a creature as your quarry to deal an additional {{DamageText|1d6|Physical}} damage whenever you hit it with a weapon attack.
|Only when used with thrown weapon attacks.
|-
|-
|{{SAI|Ice Knife}}
|{{SAI|Ice Knife}}
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|{{SAI|Blinding Smite}}
|{{SAI|Blinding Smite}}
|3rd Level [[Spells|Spell]]
|3rd Level [[Spells|Spell]]
|Evoke a heavenly flare and possibly {{Cond|Blind}} your target.  In addition, your weapon deals an additional {{DamageText|3d8|Radiant}} damage.
|Evoke a heavenly flare and possibly {{Cond|Blinded|Blind}} your target.  In addition, your weapon deals an additional {{DamageText|3d8|Radiant}} damage.
|The weapon damage and extra radiant damage are separate damage sources.  Blinding Smite allows spell based bonus damage to ride along with weapon based damage riders as sources.  
|The weapon damage and extra radiant damage are separate damage sources.  Blinding Smite allows spell based bonus damage to ride along with weapon based damage riders as sources.  
|-
|-
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|This spell allows spellcasters to project a beam of light, Blinding and dealing {{DamageText | 6d8 | Radiant}} damage to everything in its path. You can then use {{SAI|Recast Sunbeam}} on subsequent turns without expending a Spell Slot.
|This spell allows spellcasters to project a beam of light, Blinding and dealing {{DamageText | 6d8 | Radiant}} damage to everything in its path. You can then use {{SAI|Recast Sunbeam}} on subsequent turns without expending a Spell Slot.
| The additional activations apply most damage riders and are a separate damage source.
| The additional activations apply most damage riders and are a separate damage source.
|}
{| class="wikitable"
|+Other Abilities
! width="15%" |Ability
!Ability Type
!Relevant Effect
!Notes
|-
|{{SAI|Hunter's Mark}}
|1st Level [[Spells|Spell]]
|Mark a creature as your quarry to deal an additional {{DamageText|1d6|Physical}} damage whenever you hit it with a weapon attack.
|Only when used with thrown weapon attacks.
|-
|{{SAI|Tavern Brawler}}
|[[Feats|Feat]]
|When you make an unarmed attack, use an improvised weapon, or throw something, your strength modifier is added twice to the damage and [[Attack Roll]]
|Only when used with thrown weapon attacks.
|}
|}


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*[[Patch Notes|Patch 3]] changed [[Lightning Charges (Condition)|Lightning Charges]] from a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" to a "Damage Rider."
*[[Patch Notes|Patch 3]] changed [[Lightning Charges (Condition)|Lightning Charges]] from a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" to a "Damage Rider."
*[[Patch Notes|Patch 5]] changed [[Tavern Brawler]] as it applies to thrown weapons from a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" to a "Damage Rider."
*[[Patch Notes|Patch 5]]'s patch-notes mention a change to [[Tavern Brawler]] in regards to thrown weapons, likely intending to change it from a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" to a "Damage Rider" - in fact no change was made. Instead, Dwarven Thrower, Lightning Jabber, and Hunter's Mark were updated in a comparable manner, leaving them still able to trigger certain other DRS-effects while not applying Damage Riders themselves.
*[[Sneak Attack (Disambiguation)|Sneak Attack]] is treated as a Damage Rider when a character uses the Sneak Attack action, but as a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" when Sneak Attack is applied by the automatic reaction system.
*[[Sneak Attack (Disambiguation)|Sneak Attack]] is treated as a Damage Rider when a character uses the Sneak Attack action, but as a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" when Sneak Attack is applied by the automatic reaction system.
[[Category:Bugs]]
{{NavGameplay}}
{{NavGameplay}}
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