Nightsong Point: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 02:29, 28 January 2025

About Nightsong Points[edit | edit source]

Nightsong Points are a special approval system, exclusive to Shadowheart.

They influence how the encounter with Dame Aylin unfolds during the final stages of Act Two in the quest Find the Nightsong. They also affect the final decision in Shadowheart's personal quest, Daughter of Darkness.

There are a total of six Nightsong Points available during the first two acts, obtaining at least four makes Shadowheart start to doubt her devotion to Shar and unlocks otherwise hidden dialogue when encountering the Nightsong.

The internal flag for the Nightsong Points is ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_FLAG.

Obtaining Nightsong Points[edit | edit source]

Points 1 & 2[edit | edit source]

The first two points can be acquired after Shadowheart's flashback scene, where she shows the player character her young self, as a group of Sharran worshippers corner a wolf in the woods.

The points one and two have an additional obstacle, as they become available only after Shadowheart's memory.

To unlock this event, at least three Wolf Dream Points must be obtained. These can be acquired while progressing through the story:

Saving Shadowheart on the Nautiloid (ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_NautiloidSaved)
During Camp Conversation, when Shadowheart reveals herself as a disciple of Shar, following this path: (ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_WorshipGood)
- Shadowheart: We shed those cloaks. Before Shar we stand gloriously naked, beyond the vanities of mortals.
- Player character: When you put it like that, it seems strangely comforting.
- Shadowheart: There's often suffering - death even. Many people break before they embrace Shar's truths.
- Player character: I'd be lying if I said it didn't sound convincing. You should tell me more some time.
During Camp Conversation, asking Shadowheart if you can help with her hand. (ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_WoundFlarePositive)
During Camp Conversation, asking Shadowheart to tell you more about herself. (ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_LearnedPersonalKnowledge)
During Camp Conversation, finding out about her suppressed memories. (ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_MissingMemories)
Giving Shadowheart the Idol of Shar (ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_FoundIdolOfShar)
Supporting Shadowheart during her fight with Lae'zel (ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_LaezelFight)

To gain these two Nightsong Points, the correct choices must be made in the correct order.

Point 1[edit | edit source]

Option 1: During the conversation with Shadowheart, after her flashback, succeeding a passive DC 18 Religion check using the following conversation option:

You looked like you were wearing a Moonstone...isn't that commonly worn by Selûnites?

Option 2: Reading the Selûnite Rite in the Owlbear Nest before triggering this conversation reveals the knowledge to skip the passive ability check. (ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_MadeSeluniteConnection)

Option 3: Clerics of Selûne who do not read the Selûnite Rite also skip the passive ability check and receive a slightly different narration line.

Point 2[edit | edit source]

After completing Point 1, continuing the conversation with

Player character: No wonder you're so dedicated to Shar - you feel like you owe your life to her.
Shadowheart: She made me who I am...at least, as best as I can remember. She taught me, trained me, punished me when I failed her - which was often.

Now picking

Player character: Sounds like abuse.

(ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_AbuseEmancipation)

The right order of acquiring points 1 and 2[edit | edit source]

If choosing the conversation paths required for Point 2 before Point 1, then Point 1 becomes unobtainable. The dialogue tree for Clerics of Selûne who have not read the Selûnite Rite does not have this dialogue option, making this point unobtainable by Selûnite characters unless they also read it before initiating the flashback.

Point 3[edit | edit source]

This point is only available after Shadowheart's wound has flared up four times. A new conversation option appears:

Your wound is causing you too much pain, Shadowheart. There must be a way to heal it.

If the approval rating is 20 or more, the player character can either pass a DC 10 Religion check or DC 12 Persuasion check to gain the Nightsong point. (ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_CureIncurableWound)

This Point can become unobtainable if the wound flare happens outside of conversation. The occurring flare does not get added to the required 4 and stops future points from being added as well (Patch 6, version 4.1.1.5022896).

Point 4[edit | edit source]

Convincing Shadowheart to eat the Noblestalk, triggering A Familiar Face and awarding the fourth point. (ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_AteNoblestalk)

The player character must acquire Point 3 first, as consuming the Noblestalk triggers a bugged Wound flare and prevents any future wound flares counting towards the Point 3 progression.

Point 5[edit | edit source]

Giving Shadowheart a Night Orchid attributes another point. (ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_GaveNightOrchid)

Point 6[edit | edit source]

This point can be acquired through the following dialogue, while the party is in the Gauntlet of Shar:

Shadowheart: I've dreamed of this place. This is my destiny - I must complete the trials.
Player character: All right, I'll help if I can.

Otherwise, agreeing to let Shadowheart activate any of the three trials grants the same point. (ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_AgreedToTrials)

Changes to dialogue[edit | edit source]

After obtaining 4 Nightsong points, the player character automatically receives the ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_HasEnoughPoints flag

A pensive Shadowheart standing in camp, her arms uncharacteristically crossed in front of her. She is harboring doubts about her faith and relationship with Shar.

and Shadowheart might immediately trigger a conversation about her being conflicted. This might not trigger straight away, if other events are queued. As usual, new conversations are indicated by a ! above her head.

Additionally, new conversation opportunities unlock after next going to camp, but there are no indicators of these being available, except perhaps by Shadowheart's changed body language.

If long resting or leaving camp before talking to her here, her in-camp postures return to normal and this becomes unavailable.

The Nightsong[edit | edit source]

During the encounter with the Nightsong, the following flags are checked to enable to additional conversation options:

4 or more Nightsong Points
20-39 Approval rating
40 or more Approval rating

If having at least a 40 approval rating with Shadowheart and regardless of the amount of Nightsong Points, it is possible to choose the option She knows something about you. Spare her, and see what she has to say without any DC.

If having enough Nightsong points and at least a 20 approval rating with Shadowheart, she asks, I... what do you think? What should I do?, then it is possible to choose the option, This is your choice. I can't make it for you without any DC. Selecting this dialogue option causes Shadowheart to spare the Nightsong if having at least a 40 approval rating with her, or kill her otherwise.

If having a 20-39 approval rating with Shadowheart, but enough Nightsong Points, the conversation always ends in Shadowheart killing the Nightsong. This is assumed to be a bug.

Shadowheart's parents[edit | edit source]

At the end of Daughter of Darkness, Shadowheart has have to make a decision: kill her parents or free them.

If choosing the option This is your choice, Shadowheart. You don't need me to tell you what is right. and ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_HasEnoughPoints has been received (by scoring 4 Nightsong Points): Shadowheart always kills her parents (regardless of whether she is a Dark Justiciar or not). To free Shadowheart's parents, the player character has to pass a DC 20 Religion check or DC 20 Persuasion check to convince Shadowheart to spare her parents.

This happens because getting the Nightsong Points' flag ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_HasEnoughPoints blocks getting Parent Points' flag ORI_Shadowheart_State_ParentPoint_HasEnoughPoints, which can be received by obtaining two of three Parent Points. The Parent Points' flag is necessary for Shadowheart to free her parents without a dice check. It is not possible to receive both flags in the same playthrough.

That means, if Selûnite Shadowheart spared the Nightsong without being convinced to by DC checks, then she does not spare her parents without being convinced to by DC checks.

If not having received the Nightsong Points' flag and choosing the This is your choice... option, then a 50+ approval rating and having received the Parent Points' flag results in Shadowheart freeing her parents instead of killing them.

External Links[edit | edit source]

Shadowheart's Hidden Score | "Nightsong Points" Explained by SlimX
How Does Shadowheart Decide? | "Parent Points" Explained by SlimX

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 {{hatnote|For the quest, see [[Find the Nightsong]], for other approval systems, see [[Approval]].}}
-== What are Nightsong Points? ==
+== About Nightsong Points ==
-'''Nightsong Points''' are a special approval system, exclusive to [[Shadowheart]]. <br>They influence how the encounter with [[Dame Aylin]] during the final stages of [[Act Two]] plays out, during the quest [[Find the Nightsong]].<br/>
+'''Nightsong Points''' are a special approval system, exclusive to [[Shadowheart]].
-There are a total of six Nightsong Points available during the first two acts, obtaining at least four will make [[Shadowheart]] start to doubt her devotion to [[Shar]] and unlock otherwise hidden dialogue when encountering the Nightsong.
+They influence how the encounter with {{CharLink|Dame Aylin}} unfolds during the final stages of [[Act Two]] in the quest {{Quest|Find the Nightsong}}. They also affect the final decision in {{CharLink|Shadowheart|Shadowheart's}} personal quest, {{Quest|Daughter of Darkness}}.
+There are a total of six Nightsong Points available during the first two acts, obtaining at least four makes Shadowheart start to doubt her devotion to {{CharLink|Shar}} and unlocks otherwise hidden dialogue when encountering the Nightsong.
 The internal flag for the Nightsong Points is <code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_FLAG</code>.
+== Obtaining Nightsong Points ==
 === Points 1 & 2 ===
-The first two points can be acquired after Shadowheart's flashback scene during her [[Companion]] [[quest]], [[Daughter of Darkness]], where she shows the player her young self, as a group of Sharran worshippers corner a wolf in the woods.
+The first two points can be acquired after Shadowheart's flashback scene, where she shows the player character her young self, as a group of Sharran worshippers corner a wolf in the woods.
-Points one and two have an additional obstacle, as they come available only after Shadowheart's memory.
-To unlock this event, the player has to have at least three "Wolf Dream Points", which can be accquired while progressing the story:
+The points one and two have an additional obstacle, as they become available only after Shadowheart's memory.
+To unlock this event, at least three '''Wolf Dream Points''' must be obtained. These can be acquired while progressing through the story:
 # Saving Shadowheart on the Nautiloid (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_NautiloidSaved</code>)
-# During Camp Conversation, when Shadowheart reveals herself as a disciple of Shar, follow this path: (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_WorshipGood</code>)
+# During Camp Conversation, when Shadowheart reveals herself as a disciple of Shar, following this path: (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_WorshipGood</code>)
-#* '''Shadowheart:''' We shed those cloaks. Before Shar we stand gloriously naked, beyond the vanities of mortals.
+#* '''Shadowheart:''' ''We shed those cloaks. Before Shar we stand gloriously naked, beyond the vanities of mortals.''
-#* '''Player:''' When you put it like that, it seems strangely comforting.
+#* '''Player character:''' ''When you put it like that, it seems strangely comforting.''
-#* '''Shadowheart:''' There's often suffering - death even. Many people break before they embrace Shar's truths.
+#* '''Shadowheart:''' ''There's often suffering - death even. Many people break before they embrace Shar's truths.''
-#* '''Player:''' I'd be lying if I said it didn't sound convincing. You should tell me more some time.
+#* '''Player character:''' ''I'd be lying if I said it didn't sound convincing. You should tell me more some time.''
-# During Camp Conversation, ask Shadowheart if you can help with her hand. (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_WoundFlarePositive</code>)
+# During Camp Conversation, asking Shadowheart if you can help with her hand. (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_WoundFlarePositive</code>)
-# During Camp Conversation, ask Shadowheart to tell you more about herself. (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_LearnedPersonalKnowledge</code>)
+# During Camp Conversation, asking Shadowheart to tell you more about herself. (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_LearnedPersonalKnowledge</code>)
-# During Camp Conversation, find out about her suppressed memories. (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_MissingMemories</code>)
+# During Camp Conversation, finding out about her suppressed memories. (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_MissingMemories</code>)
-# Giving Shadowheart the [[Idol of Shar]] (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_FoundIdolOfShar</code>)
+# Giving Shadowheart the {{SmRarityItem|Idol of Shar}} (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_FoundIdolOfShar</code>)
-# Supporting Shadowheart during her fight with [[Lae'zel]] (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_LaezelFight</code>)
+# Supporting Shadowheart during her fight with {{CharLink|Lae'zel}} (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_WolfDreamPoint_LaezelFight</code>)
-Most players will have no problem unlocking this naturally while progressing the story.
-To now gain the two Nightsong Points, the player has to choose the correct choices in the correct order.
+To gain these two Nightsong Points, the correct choices must be made in the correct order.
 ==== Point 1 ====
 Option 1:
-During the conversation with Shadowheart, after her flashback, succeed a passive {{Ability check|Religion|18}} to unlock the conversation option
+During the conversation with Shadowheart, after her flashback, succeeding a passive {{Ability Check|Religion|18}} using the following conversation option:
-* You looked like you were wearing a Moonstone...isn't that commonly worn by Selûnites?
+* ''You looked like you were wearing a Moonstone...isn't that commonly worn by Selûnites?''
 Option 2:
-Reading [[Selûnite Rite]] in [[Owlbear Nest]] before triggering this conversation, will give the player the knowledge to skip the passive ability check.
+Reading the {{SmRarityItem|Selûnite Rite}} in the {{Loc|Owlbear Nest}} before triggering this conversation reveals the knowledge to skip the passive ability check.
 (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_MadeSeluniteConnection</code>)
 Option 3:
-If a [[Cleric]] of Selûne hasn't read Selûnite Rite, they also skip the passive ability check and receive a slightly different narration line.
+[[Cleric]]s of Selûne who do not read the {{SmRarityItem|Selûnite Rite}} also skip the passive ability check and receive a slightly different narration line.
 ==== Point 2 ====
-''After'' completing Point 1, continue the conversation with
+''After'' completing Point 1, continuing the conversation with
-* '''Player:''' No wonder you're so dedicated to Shar - you feel like you owe your life to her.
+* '''Player character:''' ''No wonder you're so dedicated to Shar - you feel like you owe your life to her.''
-* '''Shadowheart:''' She made me who I am...at least, as best as I can remember. She taught me, trained me, punished me when I failed her - which was often.
+* '''Shadowheart:''' ''She made me who I am...at least, as best as I can remember. She taught me, trained me, punished me when I failed her - which was often.''
-Now pick
+Now picking
-* '''Player:''' Sounds like abuse.
+* '''Player character:''' Sounds like abuse.
 (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_AbuseEmancipation</code>)
+==== The right order of acquiring points 1 and 2 ====
-Choosing the conversation paths required for Point 2 before Point 1 will lock the player out of the first point. The dialogue tree for Clerics of Selûne who haven't read Selûnite Rite does '''not''' have this dialogue option, making this point unobtainable by Selûnite characters unless they also read it before initiating the flashback.
+If choosing the conversation paths required for Point 2 before Point 1, then Point 1 becomes unobtainable. The dialogue tree for Clerics of Selûne who have not read the {{SmRarityItem|Selûnite Rite}} does '''not''' have this dialogue option, making this point unobtainable by Selûnite characters unless they also read it before initiating the flashback.
 === Point 3 ===
-This point is only available after Shadowheart's wound has flared up four times. A new conversation option will appear:
+This point is only available after Shadowheart's wound has flared up four times. A new conversation option appears:
-* Your wound is causing you too much pain, Shadowheart. There must be a way to heal it.
+* ''Your wound is causing you too much pain, Shadowheart. There must be a way to heal it.''
-If you approval is 20+, you can either pass a {{Ability check|Religion|10}} or {{Ability check|Persuasion|12}} to gain the Nightsong point.
+If the approval rating is 20 or more, the player character can either pass a {{Ability Check|Religion|10}} or {{Ability Check|Persuasion|12}} to gain the Nightsong point.
 (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_CureIncurableWound</code>)
-This Point can become unobtainable if the wound flare happens outside of conversation. The occurring flare doesn't get added to the required 4 and stops future points from being added as well (Patch 6, version 4.1.1.5022896).
+This Point can become unobtainable if the wound flare happens outside of conversation. The occurring flare does not get added to the required 4 and stops future points from being added as well (Patch 6, version 4.1.1.5022896).
 === Point 4 ===
-Convincing Shadowheart to eat the [[Noblestalk]], triggering [[A Familiar Face]] and awarding the fourth point.
+Convincing Shadowheart to eat the {{SmRarityItem|Noblestalk}}, triggering {{Quest|A Familiar Face}} and awarding the fourth point.
 (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_AteNoblestalk</code>)
-Make sure to complete Point 3 first, as consuming the Noblestalk will trigger a bugged Wound flare and will prevent any future wound flares counting towards the Point 3 progression.
+The player character must acquire Point 3 first, as consuming the Noblestalk triggers a bugged Wound flare and prevents any future wound flares counting towards the Point 3 progression.
 === Point 5 ===
-Giving Shadowheart a [[Night Orchid]] will attribute another point.
+Giving Shadowheart a {{SmRarityItem|Night Orchid}} attributes another point.
 (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_GaveNightOrchid</code>)
 === Point 6 ===
-This point can be acquired in a couple of ways, while the party is in the [[Gauntlet of Shar]]:
+This point can be acquired through the following dialogue, while the party is in the {{Loc|Gauntlet of Shar}}:
-* '''Shadowheart:''' I've dreamed of this place. This is my destiny - I must complete the trials.
+* '''Shadowheart:''' ''I've dreamed of this place. This is my destiny - I must complete the trials.''
-* '''Player:''' All right, I'll help if I can.
+* '''Player character:''' ''All right, I'll help if I can.''
-Otherwise, agreeing to let Shadowheart activate any of the three trials will give you the same point.
+Otherwise, agreeing to let Shadowheart activate any of the three trials grants the same point.
 (<code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_AgreedToTrials</code>)
 == Changes to dialogue ==
-After collecting 4 Nightsong points, Shadowheart might immediately trigger a conversation about her being conflicted. This might not trigger straight away, if other events are queued. As usual, new conversation are indicated by the <code>!</code> above their head.
+After obtaining 4 Nightsong points, the player character automatically receives the <code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_HasEnoughPoints</code> flag [[File:A_Pensive_Shadowheart_has_Doubts.png|right|alt=A picture of Shadowheart standing in camp, her arms uncharacteristically crossed in front of her. She is deep in thought and harboring doubts about her faith and relationship with Shar.|thumb|A pensive Shadowheart standing in camp, her arms uncharacteristically crossed in front of her. She is harboring doubts about her faith and relationship with Shar.|250px]] and Shadowheart might immediately trigger a conversation about her being conflicted. This might not trigger straight away, if other events are queued. As usual, new conversations are indicated by a <code>!</code> above her head.
+Additionally, new conversation opportunities unlock after next going to camp, but there are no indicators of these being available, except perhaps by Shadowheart's changed body language.
-More new conversation opportunities will unlock after going to camp the next time, this time without any indicators, other then Shadowhearts changed body language.<br>If you [[long rest]] or leave camp before talking to her here, this will be become unavailable.<br/>
+If long resting or leaving camp before talking to her here, her in-camp postures return to normal and this becomes unavailable.
+== The Nightsong ==
 During the encounter with the Nightsong, the following flags are checked to enable to additional conversation options:
-* 4+ Nightsong Points
+* 4 or more Nightsong Points
-* 40+ [[Shadowheart/Approval|Approval]] Raiting
+* 20-39 [[Shadowheart/Approval|Approval]] rating
-If both thresholds are hit, Shadowheart will always spare the Nightsong, if the player doesn't explicitly tell her to kill her.
+* 40 or more [[Shadowheart/Approval|Approval]] rating
+If having at least a 40 approval rating with Shadowheart and regardless of the amount of Nightsong Points, it is possible to choose the option ''She knows something about you. Spare her, and see what she has to say'' without any DC.
+If having enough Nightsong points and at least a 20 approval rating with Shadowheart, she asks, ''I... what do you think? What should I do?'', then it is possible to choose the option, ''This is your choice. I can't make it for you'' without any DC. Selecting this dialogue option causes Shadowheart to spare the Nightsong if having at least a 40 approval rating with her, or kill her otherwise.
+If having a 20-39 approval rating with Shadowheart, but enough Nightsong Points, the conversation always ends in Shadowheart killing the Nightsong. This is assumed to be a bug.
+== Shadowheart's parents ==
+At the end of {{Quest|Daughter of Darkness}}, {{CharLink|Shadowheart}} has have to make a decision: kill her parents or free them.
+If choosing the option ''This is your choice, Shadowheart. You don't need me to tell you what is right.'' and <code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_HasEnoughPoints</code> has been received (by scoring 4 Nightsong Points): Shadowheart always kills her parents (regardless of whether she is a Dark Justiciar or not). To free Shadowheart's parents, the player character has to pass a {{Ability Check|Religion|20}} or {{Ability Check|Persuasion|20}} to convince Shadowheart to spare her parents.
+This happens because getting the Nightsong Points' flag <code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_NightsongPoint_HasEnoughPoints</code> blocks getting Parent Points' flag <code>ORI_Shadowheart_State_ParentPoint_HasEnoughPoints</code>, which can be received by obtaining two of three [[Daughter of Darkness#Shar's final test - Shadowheart's parents|Parent Points]]. The Parent Points' flag is necessary for Shadowheart to free her parents without a dice check. It is not possible to receive both flags in the same playthrough.
+That means, if Selûnite Shadowheart spared the Nightsong without being convinced to by DC checks, then she does not spare her parents without being convinced to by DC checks.
-If the player has 20-40 [[Approval]], but enough Nightsong Points, the conversation will always end in Shadowheart killing the Nightsong. This is assumed to a bug.
+If not having received the Nightsong Points' flag and choosing the ''This is your choice...'' option, then a 50+ approval rating and having received the Parent Points' flag results in Shadowheart freeing her parents instead of killing them.
 == See also ==
+* [[Daughter of Darkness]]
+* [[Find the Nightsong]]
 * [[Shadowheart]]
 * [[Shadowheart/Approval]]
-* [[Find the Nightsong]]
 == External Links ==
-[https://youtu.be/YdNEya-Np5U?si=JiCoXo-gIvkEPAe8 Shadowheart's Hidden Score | "Nightsong Points" Explained] by SlimX
+* [https://youtu.be/YdNEya-Np5U?si=JiCoXo-gIvkEPAe8 Shadowheart's Hidden Score | "Nightsong Points" Explained] by SlimX
+* [https://youtu.be/4d0zJ4Uy4pI?si=_XVfH3G6p4c19nlP How Does Shadowheart Decide? | "Parent Points" Explained] by SlimX
 [[Category:Approval]]
 [[Category:Gameplay mechanics]]

Nightsong Point: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 02:29, 28 January 2025

Contents

About Nightsong Points[edit | edit source]