Damage mechanics: Difference between revisions

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(Hunter's mark only for Tavern Brawler)
(Removed the "effects which apply damage riders" heading and information, added multiple DRS examples)
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}}[[File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png|right]]{{UnderConstruction}}
}}[[File:1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png|right]]A single attack, spell, trap, or other harmful effect can often result in multiple [[Damage Rolls]]. Determining the resulting damage from these various rolls can be difficult due to hidden mechanics which are commonly referred to by the community as '''damage "sources"''' and '''damage "riders".''' The term damage "instances" is sometimes used in place of damage "sources," but for the purpose of this page the only terms to be used are damage source(s) and damage rider(s). The game does not inform players what is a damage source vs. what is a damage rider, or how these two interact with each other. This page describes the mechanical differences between damage sources and damage riders, how they interact, and lists which effects and abilities fall into each category.
A single attack, spell, trap, or other harmful effect can often result in multiple [[Damage Rolls]]. Determining the resulting damage from these various rolls can be difficult due to hidden mechanics which are commonly referred to by the community as '''damage "sources"''' and '''damage "riders".''' The term damage "instances" is sometimes used in place of damage "sources," but for the purpose of this page the only terms to be used are damage source(s) and damage rider(s). The game does not inform players what is a damage source vs. what is a damage rider, or how these two interact with each other. This page describes the mechanical differences between damage sources and damage riders, how they interact, and lists which effects and abilities fall into each category.


==Damage Sources (DS) vs. Damage Riders (DR)==
==Damage Sources (DS) vs. Damage Riders (DR)==
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** {{InfoBlob|+4 {{DamageType|Piercing}} damage}} from [[Tavern Brawler]],  [If Tavern Brawler were to ''hypothetically'' be treated as a DR with thrown weapon attacks]
** {{InfoBlob|+4 {{DamageType|Piercing}} damage}} from [[Tavern Brawler]],  [If Tavern Brawler were to ''hypothetically'' be treated as a DR with thrown weapon attacks]


==Effects which apply "Damage Riders"==
==DRS Effects==
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
The following are a list of items and abilities which have DRS effects, and what the relevant DRS effect is.
|+[[Weapons]] and [[Equipment]]
{| class="wikitable"
! width="20%" | Item
|+[[Weapons]]
!Relevant Effect
! width="20%" |Item
!Act Found
! Relevant Effect
!Notes
!Notes
|-
|-
|{{RarityItem|Callous Glow Ring}}
|{{LgItemIcon|Arrow of Acid}}
|The wearer deals an additional '''{{DamageText|2|Radiant}}''' damage against creatures that are illuminated
|All
|Deals Weapon Damage + {{DamageText|2d4|Acid}} ([[Saving Throw|Dexterity Save]] to negate). Creates a permanent [[Acid Surface]].
|N/a
|N/a
|}
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
|+Abilities
! width="15%" | Class
!Subclass
!Level
Obtained
!Relevant Effect
!Notes
|-
|-
|{{Class|Rogue}}
|{{LgItemIcon|Arrow of Fire}}
|All
|Deals weapon damage + {{DamageText|2d4|Fire}} ([[Saving Throw|Dexterity Save]] to negate). Creates a [[Fire Surface]] for 2 turns.
|N/a
|N/a
|1
|{{SAI|Sneak Attack (Melee)|Sneak Attack}}: Deal an extra 1d6 damage to a foe you have [[Advantage]] against. You can also use Sneak Attack if you have an ally within <code>1.5m / 5ft</code> of the target and you don't have [[Disadvantage]].
|Sneak Attack is only a damage rider if you use the Sneak Attack Action. Using the automatic Sneak Attack reaction is instead a "Damage Rider Treated as a Damage Source."
|-
|-
|{{Class|Sorcerer}}
|{{LgItemIcon|Arrow of Ice}}
|[[Draconic Bloodline]]
|All
|6
|Deals weapon damage + {{DamageText|2d4|Cold}} ([[Saving Throw|Dexterity Save]] to negate). Creates an [[Ice Surface]] for 2 turns.
|[[Elemental Affinity: Damage]]When you cast a spell that deals damage of the type associated with your draconic ancestry, you add your Charisma modifier to the damage.
|N/a
|N/a
|}
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
|+[[Spells]]
! width="15%" | Spell
!Spell
Level
!Relevant Effect
!Notes
|-
|-
|{{SAI|Hex}}
|{{LgItemIcon|Arrow of Lightning}}
|1
|All
|Make your attacks deal an additional {{DamageText|1d6|Necrotic}} damage <sup>''[sic]''</sup> to the target...
|Deals weapon damage + {{DamageText|2d4|Lightning}} ([[Saving Throw|Dexterity Save]] to negate).
|N/a
|N/a
|}
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
|+Miscellaneous
! width="20%" | Spell
!Relevant Effect
!Notes
|-
|-
|{{SAI|Lightning Charges (Condition)}}
|{{SAI|Prepared (Condition)}}
|
|All
* Lightning courses through you. You have +1 to [[Attack Rolls]] and deal an additional {{DamageText|1|Lightning}} damage.
|Spend 6 m / 20 ft of your [[Movement Speed|movement]] to deal additional physical damage (minimum 1) on each successful weapon attack for the rest of the turn.  
 
|[[Weapon Actions|Weapon Action]] available to all [[Greataxes]]. Recharges on Short Rest
* If you gain 5 charges, they are consumed the next time you deal damage, and you deal an additional {{DamageText|1d8|Lightning}} damage.
|Lightning Charges were "Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources" until [[Patch Notes|Patch 3]]
|}
 
==Effects which apply "Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources"==
{| class="wikitable"
|+[[Weapons]] and [[Equipment]]
! width="20%" | Item
!Relevant Effect
!Notes
|-
|-
|{{RarityItem|Phalar Aluve|alias=Phalar Aluve: Shriek}}
|{{RarityItem|Phalar Aluve|alias=Phalar Aluve: Shriek}}
|One
|All enemies within 6m of range have a 1d4 penalty to Charisma, Wisdom and Intelligence Saving Throws. Affected creatures receive an extra {{DamageText|1d4|Thunder}} damage. The sword will stop Shrieking if unequipped.
|All enemies within 6m of range have a 1d4 penalty to Charisma, Wisdom and Intelligence Saving Throws. Affected creatures receive an extra {{DamageText|1d4|Thunder}} damage. The sword will stop Shrieking if unequipped.
|N/a
|-
|{{RarityItem|Sword of Life Stealing}}
|Two
|On a [[Critical Hit]], the target takes an extra {{DamageText|10|Necrotic}} damage as long as it isn't a construct or an undead. You also gain 10 [[Temporary Hit Points|temporary hit points]].
|N/a
|-
|{{RarityItem|Render of Mind and Body|alias=Render of Mind and Body: Psychic Steel Virtuoso}}
|Two
|When the wielder attacks with  {{Advantage}}, they deal an additional {{DamageText|1d8|Psychic}} damage
|N/a
|-
|{{RarityItem|Stalker Gloves|alias=Stalker Gloves: Skullduggery Attack}}
|Three
|Your  {{SAI|Sneak Attack (Melee)|Sneak Attack}} deals an additional {{DamageText|1d4|Force}} damage
|N/a
|-
|{{RarityItem|Craterflesh Gloves|alias=Craterflesh Gloves: Craterous Wounds}}
|Three
|Whenever you score a [[Critical Hit]], deal an additional {{DamageText|1d6|Force}} damage.
|N/a
|-
|{{RarityItem|Rhapsody|alias=Rhapsody: Scarlet Remittance}}
|Three
|Gain a +1 bonus to  [[Attack Roll|Attack Rolls]], damage, and [[Spell]] Save DC for every foe you slay, up to a maximum of +3.
|N/a
|-
|{{RarityItem|Balduran's Giantslayer|alias=Balduran's Giantslayer: Topple the Big Folk}}
|Three
|Deal additional damage equal to your [[Proficiency Bonus]]. On a hit, Large, Huge, or Gargantuan creatures take an additional {{DamageText|2d6|Slashing}} damage and must suceed a  [[Strength]] [[Saving Throw]] or fall [[Prone (Condition)|Prone]].
|This is a [[Weapon Actions|weapon action]] specific to this weapon. As with all weapon actions, it recharges on a short rest.
|-
|{{RarityItem|Crimson Mischief|alias=Crimson Mischief: Redvein Savagery}}
|Three
|(Only when wielded in main hand) When you make an attack with  {{Advantage}}, the target takes an additional {{DamageText|7|Piercing}} damage.
|N/a
|N/a
|}
|}
{| class="wikitable"
{| class="wikitable"
|+Abilities
|+Class Abilities
! width="15%" | Class
! width="15%" |Class
!Subclass
!Level
!Level
Obtained
Obtained
!Relevant Effect
!Relevant Effect
!Notes
! Notes
|-
|-
|{{Class|Rogue}}
|{{Class|Rogue}}
|N/a
|1
|1
|{{SAI|Sneak Attack (Melee)|Sneak Attack}}: Deal an extra 1d6 damage to a foe you have [[Advantage]] against. You can also use Sneak Attack if you have an ally within <code>1.5m / 5ft</code> of the target and you don't have [[Disadvantage]].
|{{SAI|Sneak Attack (Melee)|Sneak Attack}}: Deal an extra 1d6 damage to a foe you have [[Advantage]] against. You can also use Sneak Attack if you have an ally within <code>1.5m / 5ft</code> of the target and you don't have [[Disadvantage]].
|Sneak Attack is only treated as a damage source if you use the automatic reaction. Using the automatic Sneak Attack action is instead treated as a damage rider.
|Sneak Attack is only treated as a damage source if you use the automatic reaction. Using the Sneak Attack action is instead treated as a damage rider.
|-
|{{Class|Paladin}}
|2
|{{SAI|Divine Smite}}: Your weapon emanates divine might as you strike, dealing an additional {{DamageText|2d8|Radiant}} damage. Deals an additional {{DamageText|1d8|Radiant}}  damage to Fiends and Undead.
|N/a
|-
|{{Class|Hunter}}
|3
|{{SAI|Colossus Slayer}}: Once per turn, your weapon attack deals an extra {{DamageText|1d8|Physical}} damage if the target is below its hit point maximum
|N/a
|-
|{{Class|Warlock}}
|12
|{{SAI|Lifedrinker}}: Your melee attacks deal additional {{DamageColor|Necrotic|Necrotic}} equal to your [[Charisma]] modifier.
|N/a
|}
|}
{| class="wikitable"
{| class="wikitable"
|+[[Spells]]
|+Other Abilities
! width="15%" | Spell
! width="15%" |Ability
!Spell
!Ability Type
Level
!Relevant Effect
!Relevant Effect
!Notes
!Notes
|-
|-
|{{SAI|Hunter's Mark}}
|{{SAI|Hunter's Mark}}  
|1
|1st Level [[Spells|Spell]]
|Mark a creature as your quarry to deal an additional {{DamageText|1d6|Physical}} damage whenever you hit it with a weapon attack.
|Mark a creature as your quarry to deal an additional {{DamageText|1d6|Physical}} damage whenever you hit it with a weapon attack.
|Only when used together with [[Tavern Brawler]]
|Only when used with thrown weapon attacks.
|}
{| class="wikitable"
|+Miscellaneous
! width="15%" | Spell
!Relevant Effect
!Notes
|-
|-
|[[Tavern Brawler]] Feat
|{{SAI|Tavern Brawler}}
|[[Feats|Feat]]
|When you make an unarmed attack, use an improvised weapon, or throw something, your strength modifier is added twice to the damage and [[Attack Roll]]
|When you make an unarmed attack, use an improvised weapon, or throw something, your strength modifier is added twice to the damage and [[Attack Roll]]
|N/a
|Only when used with thrown weapon attacks.
|}
|}
 
== Potential Bugs==
==Potential Bugs==
The following items compose a non-exhaustive list which indicates that the "Damage Riders" as compared to "Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources" may include several bugs and therefore many of these abilities may change in future patches:
The following items compose a non-exhaustive list which indicates that the "Damage Riders" as compared to "Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources" may include several bugs and therefore many of these abilities may change in future patches:



Revision as of 05:43, 18 October 2023

1d4 + 1d6 Poison.png
A single attack, spell, trap, or other harmful effect can often result in multiple Damage Rolls. Determining the resulting damage from these various rolls can be difficult due to hidden mechanics which are commonly referred to by the community as damage "sources" and damage "riders". The term damage "instances" is sometimes used in place of damage "sources," but for the purpose of this page the only terms to be used are damage source(s) and damage rider(s). The game does not inform players what is a damage source vs. what is a damage rider, or how these two interact with each other. This page describes the mechanical differences between damage sources and damage riders, how they interact, and lists which effects and abilities fall into each category.

Damage Sources (DS) vs. Damage Riders (DR)

A damage source could be described as what initializes the damage. Examples include striking a target with your weapon, a spell, or thrown items such as an Alchemist's Fire. Damage sources often require the use of an action (e.g. throwing an object such as a grenade), bonus action (e.g. making an attack with your offhand weapon while dual wielding), or reaction (e.g. the Hellish Rebuke Hellish Rebuke spell).

A damage rider is something which adds additional damage onto the damage source. It can only be present in the event there is an applicable damage source for it to "ride along" with, hence the name of a damage rider. Examples of damage riders include the Hex Hex spell adding damage to the damage from a Warlock's Eldritch Blast Eldritch Blast or weapon attacks, coatings applied to weapons providing additional damage to a weapon attack, a 6th level Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer applying their elemental affinity to a spell of the appropriate damage type, or a ragingBarbarian adding rage damage to their weapon attacks. Many damage riders are gained from passives or other forms of buffs. Any eligible damage riders from a damaging effect will be applied to a damage source which is a part of that damaging effect.

Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS)

There are some damage riders which defy the typical trends described above. They still must "ride along" with a damage source in order to be applied, but when the damage is calculated they are treated as damage sources instead of damage riders. This means that these "damage riders which are treated as damage sources" can then cause normal damage riders to be applied once again as part of the same ability (e.g. attack or spell) which caused the damage.

Example Calculation

A character with 18 Strength, the Tavern Brawler Feat, Lightning Charges (Condition) Lightning Charges (Condition), and the Ring of Flinging uses the Returning Pike to make a thrown weapon attack against a target which is affected by Hex Hex.

Damage Sources (DS):

  • Thrown weapon attack using the Returning Pike applies 1d10 (damage die) + 1 (weapon enchantment) + 4 (Strength modifier) piercing damage

Damage Riders (DR):

  • Lightning Charges (Condition) Lightning Charges (Condition) add +1 Lightning Damage to each damage source
  • The Ring of Flinging adds 1d4 damage which is of the same type as the weapon used (piercing in this example) to each damage source.
  • Hex Hex adds 1d6 necrotic damage to each damage source.

Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources (DRS):

  • The Tavern Brawler feat allows characters to add their Strength modifier an additional time to damage rolls when using unarmed strikes, improvised weapons, or thrown weapons. When applied to melee attacks this damage bonus is treated as a damage rider. But as of Patch 3 with thrown weapons, this +4 piercing damage from the character's strength score being applied a second time due to the tavern brawler feat being treated as a damage source.


Calculating total damage:

To determine the total damage applied take each DS and DRS. Then apply the damage riders onto each of these. In this example that means one should evaluate the pike damage source plus all damage riders, followed by the Tavern Brawler damage source and all damage riders applied again.

Tavern Brawler on thrown weapon attacks is a DRS, meaning the damage roll in the above scenario would on average yield 28.5 total damage (ignoring resistances) calculated as follows:

As a hypothetical scenario to show the impact that this minor detail can have, instead imagine Tavern Brawler were to be treated as a DR in the above scenairo. In this hypothetical scenario the above damage roll would yield 21.5 total damage on average (ignoring resistances) calculated as follows:

DRS Effects

The following are a list of items and abilities which have DRS effects, and what the relevant DRS effect is.

Weapons
Item Act Found Relevant Effect Notes
Arrow of Acid All Deals Weapon Damage + 2d4Damage TypesAcid (Dexterity Save to negate). Creates a permanent Acid Surface. N/a
Arrow of Fire All Deals weapon damage + 2d4Damage TypesFire (Dexterity Save to negate). Creates a Fire Surface for 2 turns. N/a
Arrow of Ice All Deals weapon damage + 2d4Damage TypesCold (Dexterity Save to negate). Creates an Ice Surface for 2 turns. N/a
Arrow of Lightning All Deals weapon damage + 2d4Damage TypesLightning (Dexterity Save to negate). N/a
Prepared (Condition) Prepared (Condition) All Spend 6 m / 20 ft of your movement to deal additional physical damage (minimum 1) on each successful weapon attack for the rest of the turn. Weapon Action available to all Greataxes. Recharges on Short Rest
Phalar Aluve: Shriek One All enemies within 6m of range have a 1d4 penalty to Charisma, Wisdom and Intelligence Saving Throws. Affected creatures receive an extra 1d4Damage TypesThunder damage. The sword will stop Shrieking if unequipped. N/a
Sword of Life Stealing Two On a Critical Hit, the target takes an extra 10Damage TypesNecrotic damage as long as it isn't a construct or an undead. You also gain 10 temporary hit points. N/a
Render of Mind and Body: Psychic Steel Virtuoso Two When the wielder attacks with Advantage Icon.png Advantage, they deal an additional 1d8Damage TypesPsychic damage N/a
Stalker Gloves: Skullduggery Attack Three Your  Sneak Attack Sneak Attack deals an additional 1d4Damage TypesForce damage N/a
Craterflesh Gloves: Craterous Wounds Three Whenever you score a Critical Hit, deal an additional 1d6Damage TypesForce damage. N/a
Rhapsody: Scarlet Remittance Three Gain a +1 bonus to Attack Rolls, damage, and Spell Save DC for every foe you slay, up to a maximum of +3. N/a
Balduran's Giantslayer: Topple the Big Folk Three Deal additional damage equal to your Proficiency Bonus. On a hit, Large, Huge, or Gargantuan creatures take an additional 2d6Damage TypesSlashing damage and must suceed a Strength Saving Throw or fall Prone. This is a weapon action specific to this weapon. As with all weapon actions, it recharges on a short rest.
Crimson Mischief: Redvein Savagery Three (Only when wielded in main hand) When you make an attack with Advantage Icon.png Advantage, the target takes an additional 7Damage TypesPiercing damage. N/a
Class Abilities
Class Level

Obtained

Relevant Effect Notes
Rogue 1 Sneak Attack Sneak Attack: Deal an extra 1d6 damage to a foe you have Advantage against. You can also use Sneak Attack if you have an ally within 1.5m / 5ft of the target and you don't have Disadvantage. Sneak Attack is only treated as a damage source if you use the automatic reaction. Using the Sneak Attack action is instead treated as a damage rider.
Paladin 2 Divine Smite Divine Smite: Your weapon emanates divine might as you strike, dealing an additional 2d8Damage TypesRadiant damage. Deals an additional 1d8Damage TypesRadiant damage to Fiends and Undead. N/a
Hunter Ranger 3 Colossus Slayer Colossus Slayer: Once per turn, your weapon attack deals an extra 1d8Damage TypesPhysical damage if the target is below its hit point maximum N/a
Warlock 12 Lifedrinker Lifedrinker: Your melee attacks deal additional Necrotic equal to your Charisma modifier. N/a
Other Abilities
Ability Ability Type Relevant Effect Notes
Hunter's Mark Hunter's Mark 1st Level Spell Mark a creature as your quarry to deal an additional 1d6Damage TypesPhysical damage whenever you hit it with a weapon attack. Only when used with thrown weapon attacks.
Tavern Brawler Tavern Brawler Feat When you make an unarmed attack, use an improvised weapon, or throw something, your strength modifier is added twice to the damage and Attack Roll Only when used with thrown weapon attacks.

Potential Bugs

The following items compose a non-exhaustive list which indicates that the "Damage Riders" as compared to "Damage Riders treated as Damage Sources" may include several bugs and therefore many of these abilities may change in future patches:

  • Patch 3 changed Lightning Charges from a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" to a "Damage Rider."
  • Tavern Brawler is treated as a Damage Rider with unarmed attacks and improvised weapon attacks, but as a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" when it comes to thrown weapon attacks.
  • Sneak Attack is treated as a Damage Rider when a character uses the Sneak Attack action, but as a "Damage Rider treated as a Damage Source" when Sneak Attack is applied by the automatic reaction system.